New Shammy Changes

[bloodi]

just to clarify the changes are a buff and an improvement, in no way at all imo are these changes worse then the old mechanics.

And my response was about you mentioning that it didnt improve, it did, i agree that most of the time in organized group play there isnt time to debuff/dot and thus the reduced cast time doesnt really show up because you cant be stacking mork/force but the ability to be able to healdebuff/silence and it not being disrupted 80% of the time is welcome addition.

I would welcome a way to dump all mork/gork stacks via 1 skill so you can change fast but i dont think it would help much, you would still need 2 gcds to dump, then get 1 point and then use that 1 point in another gcd, which most of the time you dont have time to, at all.

[Azarael]

just to clarify the changes are a buff and an improvement, in no way at all imo are these changes worse then the old mechanics.

And my response was about you mentioning that it didnt improve, it did, i agree that most of the time in organized group play there isnt time to debuff/dot and thus the reduced cast time doesnt really show up because you cant be stacking mork/force but the ability to be able to healdebuff/silence and it not being disrupted 80% of the time is welcome addition.

I would welcome a way to dump all mork/gork stacks via 1 skill so you can change fast but i dont think it would help much, you would still need 2 gcds to dump, then get 1 point and then use that 1 point in another gcd, which most of the time you dont have time to, at all.

We are considering an ability (provided via an item because of restrictions, and thus off the GCD) which would transmute heal stacks to DPS stacks - one way, with a reasonable cooldown.

[Miszczu5647]

Today I tested a little bit new mechanics on heal shammy. And I must say that ITT is nice and decent skill now (gives me around 850 hp). Another way to heal during movement is valuable addition to shaman arsenal.

Problem - not able to dump your stacks. It would by very helpful to have fast aoe heal (after I run away my entire group need heal and 2,5 s is too long most of the time). So I support the idea Azarael was talking about - converting item.

I also like roadkillrobin idea about adding stack to some abilities.

[NSKaneda]

It would by very helpful to have fast aoe heal (after I run away my entire group need heal and 2,5 s is too long most of the time). So I support the idea Azarael was talking about - converting item.

You already have that with old mechanic. If you are at 1 Mork, then spam dot to charge. It's cheap and insta-cast, can even re-apply on same target for stacking. Bam - insta group heal. Wanna go the other way? Either go full rotation or use your insta-hot 5 times to get to stack and dump again. How long does it take?

[Qwack]

After 3 days of testing this on every spec I could afford, here is my nutshell observations:

The Lifetaps still suffer from defensive mechanics and are questionable at best. This is NOT because of the changes. The changes do improve them somewhat, but Lifetaps are too unreliable to save a party member.

1v1 or small man these changes are definitely a buff, especially if you pop 2 heals, 2 damage, 2 heals, 2 damage... the spikes are quite noticeable.

In larger battles (SCs and such) you still need to sustain full rotations which drags in the 5 stack problems. Aza mentioned something above about relieving this problem and that is certainly welcome. Losing Insta-Rez and Insta-Group Heal is going to be painful though, but I would like to see how swapping full stacks will turn out.

Hey im a solo or small man Shammy so I can live with the changes, it buffs my typical environment. Larger battles with full rotations, continuous damage or sustained heals needs work.

[Teefz]

Its all situational and as i have said i like the new changes, its an improvement for sure, it doesnt address the healing issues shaman still suffer from and i dont believe it was meant to or that lifetap ever will, what im disagreeing with is that healing is now viable in group play and has significantly improved (for healers not dps), it hasnt.

just to clarify the changes are a buff and an improvement, in no way at all imo are these changes worse then the old mechanics.

After having played my shaman both in groups and solo the last couple of days I will have to agree with Morf. While the changes are a - situational - improvement towards both healing and dps, these changes still do not fix the problem shamans have while in group play. The only thing the shaman brings to the group in ORvR is sticky feetz when compared to other healers. I know some of you will say: "Well, they can also DPS while healing!" - True they can, but honestly they shouldn't be spending time on AoE/ST dmg.
From a competitive pov, shamans are in the group to pop sticky feetz, ap drain, debuff and most importantly heal. Especially the last part is key, but when s#!t hits the fan, the shaman does not have the necessary tools to keep the group up, mostly due to AP drain easily being cleansed or disrupted - especially on this server where Deft Defender recieves a lot of love from renown. Then you as a shaman have to run restorative burst in group, otherwise you will go dry once you face decent or larger opposition. This is where 50% AP cost is handy. No one in the right frame of mind will argue with that.

I genuinely think that the shamans ability to challenge the healing spots - which is mostly occupied by zealot/doks or dok/dok in the "fotm setup" - can be achieve by fixing various tactics/abilities and effectively mirroring the two classes a bit more. Even maybe looking into fixing Mistress of the Marsh initiativ stacking vs "useless" Elemental debuff. This also somewhat applies to fixing the shaman DPS abilities in terms of having 30cd on Gork's Barbs' as oppose to 10s Scatter the Winds. A simple CD reduction on the healdebuff would allow the dps/hybrid shaman to pressure his targets more - Sidenote: I know that Gork's Barbs' is equivalent to BW's Playing with Fire and this "possible fix" will bring more questions with it's solutions.

[Bozzax]

what im disagreeing with is that healing is now viable in group play and has significantly improved (for healers not dps), it hasnt.

just to clarify the changes are a buff and an improvement, in no way at all imo are these changes worse then the old mechanics.

More or less sums it up DPS shammies heal more heal shammies heal more in "ex". Why do Shammies fail in pressure environment when we play "weakest link"?

The good stuff

• - AOE puddle is neat so +1
  - Morale pump is great +2
  - Best heal M4 in game +3
  - Nice ST toughness buff +4
  - Several kiting tools +5
  - You've got the BIG ST heal that you can't use very often (+5)

The not so good stuff

• -You can't clns BW rotations -1
  -You lack group clns -2
  -You have a slow stationary group heal -3 (just don't work well in burst env.)
  - You have 0 group heals when you kite and man you will be kiting as all know this -4
  - No group HOTs not even a virus one or PBAOE -5
  - Your only way to counter burst is with Gork Fix'd It (cost a tactic) or with morales. Other healers - have core ST heals that are better and would never touch the 55ap heal -6
  -You are dot oriented which means you'll be spending many gcds building a heal on a ST (thx for changing DC) (-6)
  - You lack passive group absorbs -7
  - No heal blessings which increases your value in team by beefing the other healer -8
  - Vuln. to AP-drains -9
  - Squishy (Cloth) or spend another tactic slot for some random passive reduction -10

Basically you are mobile ST healer lacking burst with 0 group heals on the move needs 6-7 tactic slots to be at par with the weakest zeal or DOK.

If you think of group clns, absorbs or group hots as free gcds and then it easy to understand why the green rocket fails.

(I know I'm over exaggerating it but well well)

[Nabaro]

Change "Pass It On" tactic: Any time you are hit, there is a 25% chance that your next "Gork'll Fix It"(or any single target heals and hots) will applied to all group members within a radius of 100 feet from the target. (u can kite and be useful.)



We all know - shaman is all about kite and healing. I propose to extend the idea.

What do you think?

[Qwack]

what im disagreeing with is that healing is now viable in group play and has significantly improved (for healers not dps), it hasnt.

just to clarify the changes are a buff and an improvement, in no way at all imo are these changes worse then the old mechanics.

More or less sums it up DPS shammies heal more heal shammies heal more in "ex". Why do Shammies fail in pressure environment when we play "weakest link"?

The good stuff

• - AOE puddle is neat so +1
  - Morale pump is great +2
  - Best heal M4 in game +3
  - Nice ST toughness buff +4
  - Several kiting tools +5
  - You've got the BIG ST heal that you can't use very often (+5)

The not so good stuff

• -You can't clns BW rotations -1
  -You lack group clns -2
  -You have a slow stationary group heal -3 (just don't work well in burst env.)
  - You have 0 group heals when you kite and man you will be kiting as all know this -4
  - No group HOTs not even a virus one or PBAOE -5
  - Your only way to counter burst is with Gork Fix'd It (cost a tactic) or with morales. Other healers - have core ST heals that are better and would never touch the 55ap heal -6
  -You are dot oriented which means you'll be spending many gcds building a heal on a ST (thx for changing DC) (-6)
  - You lack passive group absorbs -7
  - No heal blessings which increases your value in team by beefing the other healer -8
  - Vuln. to AP-drains -9
  - Squishy (Cloth) or spend another tactic slot for some random passive reduction -10

Basically you are mobile ST healer lacking burst with 0 group heals on the move needs 6-7 tactic slots to be at par with the weakest zeal or DOK.

If you think of group clns, absorbs or group hots as free gcds and then it easy to understand why the green rocket fails.

(I know I'm over exaggerating it but well well)

The only thing you are wrong on is "exaggerating", it really does look like this.

[Qwack]

The 50% reduction on heals for self (Group Heal, Bigger Better, Gork Fix) is EXTREMELY painful and needs to be removed or greatly adjusted. The 20% heal reduction on insta cast (Eye quit bleeding, Do Sumthing useful) is painfail and needs to be looked at it.

Here is whats happening in the real world now: A Shammy is usually picked first to be brought down by opponents if in range because its squishy. Since our self heal has been HUGELY nerfed after using any damage, we are just dead. I am finding that when I am focused my survivability is considerably less than the old method. Do I really have to have a pocket healer now in order to exist? That's the situation.

While its nice at times to work the heck out of Waagh to get a 25% damage bonus, the 50% self heal debuff overrides the benefit. If these heal debuffs remain in, Order is gonna realize VERY fast that Shamans are easier kills than before.