[Guard Mechanic] - Discussion/Changes?

[th3gatekeeper]

Just looking to have some creative discussion here as well as have a questions answered by maybe a DEV. I created a LONG thread a while back about a possible Guard rework and keep going back to this idea as I see it over and over again anytime I read about builds for tanks. "tanks are guardbots" etc. I see PUGs who play tanks and if they dont guard, it is a colossal impact on the team. As one person put it (and I agree)

guard is probably the most OP skill in the game.

So my question to the DEVs - what changes ARE possible with guard?

It seems that guard is so important, people must build their entire class around focusing on guard. It gives premades an immense advantage over PUG groups and is one of the MOST rewarding/punishing things in the game. A player who can guard swap, essentially seals the deal for their team. In RVR guard is almost mandatory to break through keep doors to overcome massive RVR AOE...

Now maybe there are a bunch of people who thing "Guard is fine as it is bro" but I just keep going back to this idea that Guard creates a "skill gap" and is not as much fun for many players and causes issues in PVP when players DONT use it -> kinda like DPS Shaman/AM who are not healing. We recently had some changes to DSP AM/Shammy because of this to make it much easier.

I would like to have a conversation here if you guys think there should be some modifications, or if we even CAN have any modifications to guard.

One proposal that come up from the last thread was this:

The one change I would do to guard is change the harshness of it.
50% reduction at 30ft 0% at 31ft makes tanks pretty much feed the melee train mentality and overvalue kb cc.
Id like to see some sort of diminished effectiveness

I dont know if its possible, but some other interesting suggestions such as an increased range on guard, or a DECREASED effectiveness on guard without a shield (which would require a buff to 2H tanks DPS as they would be more a hybrid now) or even if guard were given a bigger range with less % shared? Say a 60 foot range but at 30% (instead of 50%).

I play tanks, I love playing tanks. I focus my entire build around guard and sometimes it feels boring as if I am "glued" to that target. Its painful when you PUG and see no other tanks using guard because its an inconvenience to them.


My goal with any change would be:
- Make it easier and more attractive for all tanks to use (both 2h and shield).
- Make it require less "sticky-ness" to your guarded target
- Make it more FUN
- Make it so any of the tank classes are not pigeon holed into a "guard bot".

Any thoughts? CAN guard even be modified?

[Arobain]

i've been thinking about maybe guard being different for each tank class, so for a wild example, ironbreaker keeps the current guard, since he is more of a turtle tank, kotbs gets a party wide guard that instead of 50%, 10% to all group members, and the swordmaster i dont really know, but maybe, a big resistance of 80% to a certain type of damage at one time, that the swordmaster can switch depending on the situation?

[Rebuke]

PUG problems hence no chance on balance forums.

[peterthepan3]

It doesn't give premades any advantage over pugs: a person's refusal/inability to use a skill integral to their archetype is another issue altogether. Guard can be countered in smallscale (watch korze/simtex's streams for 6v6 and watch how their groups counter it) and in large-scale (excessive force)

Seriously baffles me why people think changes ought to be centered around people not playing the game properly.

[th3gatekeeper]

i've been thinking about maybe guard being different for each tank class, so for a wild example, ironbreaker keeps the current guard, since he is more of a turtle tank, kotbs gets a party wide guard that instead of 50%, 10% to all group members, and the swordmaster i dont really know, but maybe, a big resistance of 80% to a certain type of damage at one time, that the swordmaster can switch depending on the situation?

This is an interesting idea.. I was kicking around proposing it be more "group wide" than a single guard target but then it eliminates the need for 2 tanks, and also puts a TON of stress on 1 tank nearly forcing everyone to turtle up... This is an interesting idea though. Guard works differently for each type...

I know other games (Neverwinter to name one) has a "guard" that works party wide and in a pretty large (I think its 80-90 feet) to make it very easy to use. I also think about games like Overwatch and how it implemented "tanks" as well, each one had their own method of absorbing damage... Much akin to your idea here.

PUG problems hence no chance on balance forums.

not so much as PUG problems at is just had to do with fun. The gaming world has changed since ROR came out. What players want has changed.

Yes its a major impact in PUG groups, and even RVR. I am not bringing this up for the sheer sake of PUGs though. Its also limiting for players who DO use Guard correctly - in that they must build respectively for it. Its too much of an impact to the "core" of the game from just 1 ability that is VERY easy to not use correctly, or without an addon.

If there were more direct in game support for it, such as an animation that showed when guard was active and working, it might be fine. But int order to even tell if its in range you need an addon and even then, as a tank, you are glued to the person you are guarding.

It just seems to me the FUN factor could be increased a lot by some reworks - which makes it appeal to more players (both the class AND RoR itself too).

[Azarael]

Guard is a cornerstone of the tank archetype and of this game in general. The only way Guard will now ever come up for discussion is if a skilled player happens to write a proposal on it.

[Arobain]

hey aza, what did you think of my idea though?

[th3gatekeeper]

Guard is a cornerstone of the tank archetype and of this game in general. The only way Guard will now ever come up for discussion is if a skilled player happens to write a proposal on it.

Thanks for the post Az,

I guess this is what I am hoping to accomplish. Get some good ideas out there TO make a proposal (either myself or someone maybe more well known) but the goal behind this was just to spark discussion and see what people thought.

[gke96]

This is about some players are simply bad tank players or lack of cooperation in pug groups it doesnt have any relation to "Guard" skill.

Guard isnt the only thing you lack when you are unskilled and lack good teamplay, this game greatly requires teamplay after all.

[gke96]

i've been thinking about maybe guard being different for each tank class, so for a wild example, ironbreaker keeps the current guard, since he is more of a turtle tank, kotbs gets a party wide guard that instead of 50%, 10% to all group members, and the swordmaster i dont really know, but maybe, a big resistance of 80% to a certain type of damage at one time, that the swordmaster can switch depending on the situation?

I think that would complicate things too much and greatly disturb melee dps players.

Also shake the game from its core, %10 less damage for team members or spesific resistance to a type is smth like tactics or morale abilities etc can have u definetily cannot forsake current guard for these (like BO da Greenest or sorcerer m2 wind shield thing). Those things can only be extras