Stat/Armor potions

[Daknallbomb]

Dont like issue 3. Cause of potions will be very Situational. I like solution 1 rly good. Think IT will bei a big step 4 balancing. Löw Amor Toons are low Amor Toons. And Tanks are The only rly tanky classes. The prob on solution 3 is IT will be mayb nö rly diffrent to how it is. Ppl run arround with 200 pots and permanent drink after CD is done

[Akalukz]

I agree that the system has its flaws, and a lot of potions mask a lot of abilities in a way that they become obsolete.
And i have an additional suggestion: Make all stat/armor potions increase the characters attributes not by a fixed amount, but use a percental value for the calulation: this way, a SW cant get as much strength out of it as a choppa, or a DOK cant get as much armor as a tank.

Would it be possible? I mean I could see the armor pots going to reduced % armor penetration. This would make it class/archetype specific. While still allowing individual skills/tactics to be useful.

[Daknallbomb]

Hmm and how on classes that can be played in diffrent styles?

[Morf]

Just to throw it out there, liniments, while some would see them as more powerful then stat potions they did mean that class buffs were more powerful as liniments gave +60 of a stat however, yes, they did also provide stats like 5% crit, 5% reduce crit chance, 5% reduce armor pen etc etc,. Might be worth thinking about them.

[Raelag]

Changes destroy the ability to select the game and classes game style thet you love to play . For example, I want to play the DoK DPS or tank or DEF Mara I need these Potts or what I'm up for the lack of stats? By removing them you destroy choice,And it makes playing only arctypes as a pure healer or purely DPS.I am sure that all sleep and see how to destroy the Dok+ WP and Shamy+ Am DPS, or def mara.

Almost all who play here are the people that played on the live servers play here because they love this game and its options to play. such a change bafnit certain classes and drop the other

[Penril]

Changes destroy the ability to select the game and classes game style thet you love to play . For example, I want to play the DoK DPS or tank or DEF Mara I need these Potts or what I'm up for the lack of stats? By removing them you destroy choice,And it makes playing only arctypes as a pure healer or purely DPS.I am sure that all sleep and see how to destroy the Dok+ WP and Shamy+ Am DPS, or def mara.

Almost all who play here are the people that played on the live servers play here because they love this game and its options to play. such a change bafnit certain classes and drop the other

It would affect their SOLO game. If grouped with other classes they would still benefit from permanent buffs (Chosen auras, Dok armor covenant, etc.). Pots don't stack with any of those buffs anyway.

[Tesq]

I agree that the system has its flaws, and a lot of potions mask a lot of abilities in a way that they become obsolete.
And i have an additional suggestion: Make all stat/armor potions increase the characters attributes not by a fixed amount, but use a percental value for the calulation: this way, a SW cant get as much strength out of it as a choppa, or a DOK cant get as much armor as a tank.

this proposal is more acceptable, tough i had to say that considering that

2 melee can armor debuff
2 melee ingore armor
3 rdps does magic damages
3 rdps can armor debuff

All armor buff should made directly stack with potion and their value should be balanced with that ( so all group armor buff should be 660 while all self armor buff 2x the single value), or all made 2x the armor potion value without stack, so that even if they do not stack then there is still point in use them.
the % sound good on paper but what % should be? if it's not high enough then you would end with just buff destru over order and BO over other destru tank.

Also nerf in potion may results in DOK/WP armor buff to be mandatory or in destru BO be mandatory while order get WP and dok can still give snare + damages proc to group resulting in buff generally all destru set up.

with a 50% armor ignore from any pshysical DD and an armor debuff the value are pretty much lower than debuffed resistences.
with 1 chosen and 1 def jewerly you can have 1 resistences capped so for exemple you are pretty much protected from bw/engi or sorc/margus magic damages but armor require more stack.

[wargrimnir]

I agree that the system has its flaws, and a lot of potions mask a lot of abilities in a way that they become obsolete.
And i have an additional suggestion: Make all stat/armor potions increase the characters attributes not by a fixed amount, but use a percental value for the calulation: this way, a SW cant get as much strength out of it as a choppa, or a DOK cant get as much armor as a tank.

I was trying to wrap my head around how the crafting system would look after this. There are 10 tiers of crafting, each with 3 potion rarities, and 3 steps in duration iirc 5m/30m/60m. The reality of the system at end game is that you're really only concerned with the 60m blue potion. If you're at the top tier and looking at a 10% buff, at softcap that would be 105 points of stats. Which would actually be a buff to the current system regarding stat potons. Armor would suffer significantly as they're dependent on your class limitations on armor. Resists would suffer across the board, as classes generally get the same amount.

Now if we're trying to tie more powerful effects to lower duration the crafting gets more complicated. +Power in crafting would only be related to Rarity of the potion.

at max tier R36 potions, random examples/values
Blue
5m/20m/40m
10%/9%/8%
Green
3m/12m/24m
8%/7%/6%
White
1m/4m/12m
6%/5%/4%

But what happens as we go further down the line and approach 0%? Do we toss out the 10 tiers of crafting. Start ticking down by 0.5% each step? Revert halfway through to the original system for lower tiers? For that you would need to pinpoint when a 4% bonus is equal to a +40 potion with the average stat distribution. Mid-game tiers though wouldn't really matter at the current state I suppose.

Modifying a crafting system with a lot of moving parts is more complicated than it sounds. You might assume that the system itself is creating these different potions, but the reality is every possible potion has a unique ID, and the system merely determines which one ends up in your inventory. Crafting is a big messy system to get involved with, and perhaps it's needed to some degree, but don't consider it a small undertaking.

[warkaiser]

While I agree that this is a good point regarding armor buffs & pots, I disagree with the desire to remove stat boosts from pots. They do not completely override or remove the need for stat buffs from other classes, rather they (if setup properly) are used IN COMBINATION with those buffs. For example the RP and Zealot stat buffs. Unless you have multiple zealots or RPs in your party, youre only going to have 1 of their stat buffs available to you. Even if youre using a pot for your main stat, the other stat buffs from them are still useful (ie: putting resists buffs on players who already have str pots, or even for the RP/Zealot himself utilizing a combination of Int or Will pots combined with the buff of the opposite stat allowing them to freely switch between DPS and healing as needed).


Anyway, IMO a better solution for any of these issues if there is a reall need to change the way pots and buffs function with eachother, would be to analyze the skills and classes themselves. Changing pots has an impact on EVERYONE, and removing or severely nerfing them would have a huge impact on group makeup / balance and class desirability. There would now be a sudden need to have X class with X buff to compensate for the removal of the potion buffs, and as a result, if youre not that particular class you will be much less preferred in a group vs someone who does. Certain tanks will be much more desired vs those that do not offer the same buffs, and the same goes for healers. Not having those particular classes and going up against a team that does have them, puts you at a huge disadvantage if you no longer have the ability to compensate for lack of buffs by using potions.

[Raelag]

Changes destroy the ability to select the game and classes game style thet you love to play . For example, I want to play the DoK DPS or tank or DEF Mara I need these Potts or what I'm up for the lack of stats? By removing them you destroy choice,And it makes playing only arctypes as a pure healer or purely DPS.I am sure that all sleep and see how to destroy the Dok+ WP and Shamy+ Am DPS, or def mara.

Almost all who play here are the people that played on the live servers play here because they love this game and its options to play. such a change bafnit certain classes and drop the other

It would affect their SOLO game. If grouped with other classes they would still benefit from permanent buffs (Chosen auras, Dok armor covenant, etc.). Pots don't stack with any of those buffs anyway.

But those that like their games are played solo for example dok dd am dd and lastly Wh WE mara, or they are not all the same players and in most cases the solo game, you at least 2 vs 1 disadvantage

I often play solos. very worried that you will make it impossible or unbalanced this opportunity