Destro vs Order

[Akalukz]

The problem i see if that everyone is focused on balance at the 6 man meta group. When over all the game is played more loose than that. The game desigin and focus seems to be ORvR, which is not 2 perfectly setup 6 man groups. That's the problem.

[Daknallbomb]

Hmmm a warband is nothing Else like 4 sich mans

[Gachimuchi]

warband much gachimuchi?
order can do two parties in the warband as 1-3-2
kotbs, sw, bw, bw, wp, rp. this is for ranged aoe bombing setup.

but ofcourse the only thing anyone does here is stack slayer and bright wizard. because it is easy, and effective and thats just on players. hardly anyone experiments they just use the meta.

the shadow warrior has his place, he is not as bad as you assume. he is just not being utilized by order in any premade warbands.

Descent/Structure

premade warbands lmao

Let me clear something up for you, this game is balanced around the 6 man level. Not the WB level where you can do pretty much anything and you just dump damage morales when the WB leader says so and aside from that you just do whatever you want.

[Gnarlimus]

who are you to say how it is balanced? and you are just talking nonsense, if two warbands clash and one does as you would do, or how you put anyway. and just do any old thing. you would get rolled by the warband thats doing what it should be doing.

descent/structure

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

Also you're completly wrong.

Base crit chance


Just Dirty Tricks


Both Dirty Tricks and Leading Shots

No I'm actually part right. Dirty Tricks + Leading shots = All order crit buffs ?????

Anyway Dirty tricks leading shots stacking is noted. It still doesn't change anything.

yes there's more, Ancestors Fury and Ecnourage aim also stacks. So does any Intitive debuff like Nature's Blade, Mistress of the March. Bot those are pretty well mirrored.

[Akalukz]

Hmmm a warband is nothing Else like 4 sich mans

True, but be honest, how many warbands have you been in that were 2/2/2 ( 2 dok / 2 chosen / 2 mara) or whatever the best 6 man setup is, in all 4 groups?

I do not underestimate the job it takes to balance the game, part of the problem is that a large portion of the players do not play at the meta level. nor do they want to. That creates issues. We have a sorta casual friendly game, that requires a non casual playstyle to be good at it.

Too bad they can't have two sets of skills a scenario (meta) set and an ORvR set. (different description depending on what is going on)

EDIT: to steal an idea from someone else. Maybe they could just give a big ass wounds buff while in ORvR. This will allow of a more forgiving type of play, while still maintaining the "sanctity" the the 6-man group play.

[roadkillrobin]

4 6mans isn't the same a warband. A warband buils externally outside it's group to create synnergy for the warband while 4 6man works as 4 individual groups who aside of maybe assisting don't really build the groups to function as a 24 man. They way you spec for a 24man is completly different then it is for a 6man It's not even close. The meta is a completly different game. I know coz i make alot of the builds we run with our premade warband 3-4 days a week.

[Gnarlimus]

A wounds buff had also crossed some of our minds akalukz. but in comment i have been in many warbands that are setup perfectly, because WE made them, the players. most of the balance issues in this game are really on the players im telling you.

descent/structure

[dur3al]

I'd also like you prove BW/SW groups are meta. Because I haven't seen it. SW is actually incredibly underwhelming since it can't come close to putting out the damage of a BW yet still has all the pitfalls of a ranged DPS. 2x BW is better than a BW/SW. Even so, BW is used in a meta proc based group, wheras SW is absent.

Excuse me, you keep saying things are not meta, let me clarify that, do you even premade bro? I'd really like to know your premade to see how you're making assumptions on what's meta and what isn't.

LoB? CCM? Have you honestly - ever did a 6v6 caledor woods with full group to see what is meta and what isn't? Just because all groups ain't running double slayers or double marauders, doesn't mean its not part of the meta comps. Especially on current RoR version of the game.

Here, i'll just enlight you since people like to talk about things they do not know - nor participate - even without not having knowledge and/or the experience.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... p_mpdwfiLH

It would help tons for everyone - server included - if people who do not know about a certain subject simply refrain from sharing their "valuable" insight.

What exactly is this thread trying to accomplish?

According to dev team and many players, as displayed by Azarael himself on his thread, Torquemada several times when people were discussing the bonus set change on this thread, it seems they've all gathered that crit stacking is an issue, since its a to-good bonus to have making everything else kinda secondary, so they moved on forward to reduce crit from gear all aboard without even thinking the impact this will have due to the factions being different and having different ways of stacking crit, as it was thoroughly demonstrated in this thread, plus the fact of rdps being much better risk/reward ratio currently, and one side only having the perfect tools to fight with/against ranged comps - Wings of Heaven - Pounce - Fetch - rKD - to name a few.
And a lot of people seem to be failing to see this. Further changes being discussed such as moral pump (especially targeting chosens), AoE cleanse (already nerfed) without even touching ID or Shatter Limbs efficiency and other discussions are completely skipping the entirety of the interaction with other classes and how things work on the other side.

I guess this thread, hopefully, will en-light the kinds of people who fail to see this - and how even with the best kinds of intentions, selective "balancing" changes are in reality unbalancing the game even further when not looking all things connected. This was being pointed out by several people among the balancing discussions threads, and our OP here felt it wasn't as bad as people are telling it to be, and decided to open this discussion.

As an example:

Dirty Tricks and Leading Shots are both in the Tactic stack group, and so will stack with one another and with Ancestor's Fury. As all are general crit, they also improve critical heal chance.

Acknowledging that, I'd really like to know why this wasn't part of the discussion when reducing crit from gear all aboard, why wasn't discussed or changed too?

Whenever I pointed out some of these various changes, I get replied by such:

Guard range was fixed. your argument is invalid. If you think guard needs a buff, open a balance thread and let us know why.
All i hear in the second part of your post: "so I'm just not playing my marauder - the class that has been in a horribly overpowerd state for the longest time - because i like to whine a lot. Your whole thread is build around the idea to call us out for favouring order over destro, which is bullshit and you better drop this mindset if you want to be taken seriously. All your arguments only serve this one purpose.

I mean, I'm sure its probably unintentional, but shutting people up for pointing it out is kinda dumb.
PS: I barely play my marauder as of late anyway, I'm either healing ranged comps on destro or switched to order. #adaptorgohome

[Gachimuchi]

Excuse me, you keep saying things are not meta, let me clarify that, do you even premade bro? I'd really like to know your premade to see how you're making assumptions on what's meta and what isn't.

LoB? CCM? Have you honestly - ever did a 6v6 caledor woods with full group to see what is meta and what isn't? Just because all groups ain't running double slayers or double marauders, doesn't mean its not part of the meta comps. Especially on current RoR version of the game.

Here, i'll just enlight you since people like to talk about things they do not know - nor participate - even without not having knowledge and/or the experience.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... p_mpdwfiLH

It would help tons for everyone - server included - if people who do not know about a certain subject simply refrain from sharing their "valuable" insight.

I play on the NA side of things. Competition is currently dead and guild has largely stopped playing as a result - Old School/LoTLR. I've done plenty of CW FYI.

I don't know who the hell you are either, so get off your high horse or back off.