Changelog 15/11/16

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

i assume that the idea it's to make these change core after an ab ex test period so
i would be quite frankly, the dok/wp had a medium armor because should had been forced to play medium line and not back line nor front line, this change just make it a bad copy of all other healer which had some of their tools made on the move for the very reason they couldn't kite otherwise, now that dok/wp are backline healers at every effect their kite will die because having not those tool if they get catch they are dead and this have nothing to with low cast time.

cast time is proportional--> to the heal done it was made on some skills on the move to let em kite that's the reason; a focussed wp/dok cant kite because for heal it need to be stationary and melee spam on you with the set back prevent you from heal,this was balanced by higer armor and lower cast time, if you keep the dok/wp snare it's the easier healer class to kill with out guard; expect when 1 have no detaunt and get KD and focussed. Because he finish his essence fast, and cant rec with out break the detaunt if he need to spam heals immidiately.

Thus forcing them to remove chalice ( and i used a resistences def one instead the one from sc that give crit so this is a double nerf to dok/WP survability, which make my dok a medium healers nor a backline nor a front line).

It would had just better force ppl to play medium line fix the aoe rec to be undefitable and remove the rec backline channeling, i never used once the rec channeling when i had sov because i stayed medium/front line thx to the absorb tactic, crit and detaunt keep healing even when ppl had warpforged and i was still rr 91 on my dok because i had an aoe out party heal which both allow me to refresh my absorb every time and heal me and the others + have a working rec proc + additional proc which fixed the aoe proc not be undefitable problem.
Medium line/front line dok/wp as caster was alredy working , it was not the melee healer or melee dps component but was then abused as backline, which they are not designed to be so they should had nerfed as backliner not how medium/front caster.

this forcing the dok/wp in the role of a backline healer/caster when made core, will kill the class difference towards the other healers while also make the dok/wp nerfed to the ground.

As an exemple there was 1 zealot which not even rr 100 in live healed more than anyother wp/dok in any city siege, the class to balance were shammy/Am and force wp/dok into medium line not totally rewamp wp/dok heal build.
Even if they prove to be working for the melee wp/dok you simply killed the concept of the armored healer for me; it would had been better nerf the heal of the dok/wp to force us to spec more healing or reduces the range of every heal to force us to stay more front line. This just killed the reason why i choose this class aka less heal more durable as healer. I wanna play it as a front line caster that can soak damages which is why it was designed that way when they introduced chalie and books and not as melee-healer or a full backline healer.
You just need 1 KD to make your group wipe and now it will just require 1 wh/we to kill you and prevent you because while a shammy/zealot/rune/am will have your same armor can now turn and moving and make some parry or KB him and moving while healing you will be forced to stay still with the same armor and die because the nerfed armor value/ and set back which also engi can now also increase over the destru healers from 98670986 km now.

You also nerfed the dok/wp pure heal due the changes to the procs, now if you play it caster, your are forced onto the armor buff which is "useless" (dont stack).


-sw change will results into not real change they could crit me for 3970 two days ago.
-slayer change is ridiculus, is not a really change at all in any scenario apprt 4 vs v4 and with dok/wp g-cleanse nerf and the new changes that they will be made core in future for backline dok/wp that would be even worst.

p.s dok dual weild animation on 2-3 skills are horrible.

[Bowldancer]

The Cooldown reduction on Deathblow is pretty much useless (from a Giantslayer Pov)

15 sec instead of 30 sec on a skill that does 17 % more damage for twice the AP amount ( compared to Spellbreaker).

But thanks for acknowledging the mere existance of 2h Slayer

Positive: I always liked the Animation of Deathblow.

[Luth]

Quick question, I was always under the impression that Willpower didn't scale well in regards to DoK heals. Is this false?

Iirc "Divine Mend" should scale very well with willpower, though AOE healing not.

[Sigimund]

and how you explain wp/dok have same armor than AM RP without their skills for protect them?

That's the beauty of it. You do have skills. Change aura (10s cd) to get normal armour, aoe detaunt and strong melee heals. Fight to survive.

[Akalukz]

Thanks Luth for the clarification.

Any core testers want to submit some builds with tips?

[Luth]

The builds shouldn't be much different than before.

[adei]

Overview of changes to WP/DoK
Changes

Spoiler:

General changes:
- Books and chalices are no longer permitted.
- Switching between the Prayers of Absolution and Devotion or the Covenants of Vitality and Tenacity invokes a 10 second cooldown for all Prayers and Covenants.
- Switching to or from Prayer of Righteousness or Covenant of Celerity results in a 30 second cooldown instead.
+ The cooldown of Absence of Faith is now 10 seconds.

Prayer of Absolution and Covenant of Tenacity:
+ Provide 8 Righteous Fury / Soul Essence per second.
+ Convert your Strength bonus from items into Willpower.
- Reduce your armor by 50%. This is a multiplicative modifier, and thus also reduces the effect of potions, talismans and debuffs for armor.

Prayer of Devotion and Covenant of Vitality:
+ Convert your Willpower bonus from items into Strength.
+ You will gain 50% of your Strength bonus from items as Willpower whenever you strike a target with a Path of Grace or Path of Sacrifice ability.
This effect stacks up to three times and lasts for 12 seconds, and will be removed if you remove the Prayer or Covenant.
+ Your detaunt will gain the effect of the Intimidating Repent or Terrifying Aura tactic, becoming AoE.
+ Sigmar's Radiance and Transfer Essence will deal 50% less damage, but will heal for twice as much and become undefendable.
+ Rend Soul and Divine Assault will deal 50% less damage, but will heal for 50% more, will heal for the mitigated and absorbed value as well, and become undefendable.
The damage reduction is in the Tactic reduction group, and so damage reductions from tactics and Challenge will not affect these skills.

Prayer of Righteousness:
+ Convert your Willpower bonus from items into Strength.
+ The damage inflicted by Path of Wrath skills increases based on your Righteous Fury level, to a maximum of 40%.
- You will lose 5 Righteous Fury per second to power this effect.
+ Absence of Faith will debuff heals by 50%.
+ When you trigger your Prayer of Righteousness, it will increase your movement speed by 20% for 5 seconds. This will only affect you.

Covenant of Celerity:
+ Convert your Willpower bonus from items into Strength.
+ The damage inflicted by Path of Torture skills increases based on your Soul Essence level, to a maximum of 25%.
- You will lose 5 Soul Essence per second to power this effect.

Wrath/Torture
If you plan on going for the true DPS WP/DoK you will of course be playing Wrath or Torture. To start out with lets talk about Wrath. Also... warning because of the length of all this rubbish.

Wrath
Here is the build that I ran with
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wp; ... 1:;0:0:0:0:
You can spend the rest of the points in whatever you want, this is just the essentials.

I had 1005 str, the reason behind this was because of a previous change to HoS applying automatic critical hit below 50%, I found I did not need to stack critical rating due to the initiative debuff that WP also receives, I crit often and do good damage. With the 40% increase whilst staying in PoR you really become a threatening mdps, the burst potential for this class now is just fantastic, I will post some examples. Typical rotation that I found most effective was Constigation – Weight of Guilt – Bludgeon – HoS, of course this is not factoring your new and improved heal debuff, or silence etc, this is simply a method of maximum burst, typically when you can land this on an unguarded target/punt the guard away the following damage is enough with the first 3 hits combined with an auto attack to reduce them below 50, hit them with a HoS and then its all situational, in a more organised format you would need the heal debuff and a bit of time to set up this combo, but for solo play or pug play, you should be demolishing any unsuspecting target.

Also worth mentioning of course is the heal debuff, its not 10 seconds duration and is a curse, the bonus now is that unlike DoK you have a spare tactic slot to use, granted you cannot put it on multiple enemies like the DoK can, but it does open up more variety in your build, so you can take the aoe detaunt since you will not have it in PoR or take GS for maximum damage and aided healing.

You could build the WP in a more crit focused build with the 2h hammer and renown, that is an option, I personally prefer running the strength as I still have 15% crit + initi debuff and found myself critting more than enough, so the I prefer the flat str. Also in a group format if you have another armor debuffer feel free to take Virtue hammer for snare. Despite the 20% movement speed charge you gain once proccing your own prayer, catching squigs/shamans is still a pain due to the fact that your own proc will generally proc their racial/or they will just naturally kite you with their kit. It is still great for kiting melees yourself, and catching others.

Wrath damage example video

Click here to watch on YouTube

Torture
Here is the build I ran with
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... 9:;0:0:0:0:
Heavy on dots, still picking up devour, its just too good to pass up.

As for torture, torture still holds some good burst potential, however not like the WP, in previous test versions the damage increase for both of these classes while in the 'dps stance' was 50%, this was far too much for the DoK, it was just far too strong, plus the DoK also has a much better tree to utilise, and its covenants are better than the prayers, given it gives you a group snare, is is also a much more sustain/pressure based given the amount of dots it can apply and continue to be a pain in the backside. WA does not hit as hard as HoS does, but it still hits for a decent amount, you can expect 1k or above on an unguarded target for example. The sustain damage from the dots being increased by 25% also adds more pressure, it plays the same as it always has, you just have more damage.

The downside of playing a pure dps of these is that if you find yourself in a bad situation, you will be swapping into CoV/PoD in order to keep yourself alive, doing this takes your damage back to normal levels, so use it when you need to, if you fill a traditional mdps role you should be good to stick in dps, however having this undefendable backup heals is just great utility, and I will explain more of that in Grace/Sacrifice.

Another upside to playing these is that you will now be using abilies that you didnt before. Cleave Soul becomes your new bread and butter over TE since it will do more damage for example. And when you do decide to heal your damage % will be dropping, so you are not as much of a threat when support healing.

So overall.
DPS WPS – Fantastic burst damage, improved curse heal debuff, very satisfying to play, can offheal when needed at loss of damage.
DPS DoK – Decent burst damage, Great sustain/pressure, can offheal when needed at loss of damage.

Grace/Sacrifice
Now if you want to play a pure melee healer, it is now very possible, there are many builds which you can now utilise, and that is really going to depend on what playstyle you prefer and what your group setup would need.

I don't really need to talk about them individually here, they are very similar in playstyle. If you want to be a true melee healer you will be in CoV/PoD all the time, there is no reason to swap out unless as a DoK you need the group snare badly, but do so at your own risk. You will have the highest hps in the game, averaging at around 1k/hps, your TE/SR will be healing anywhere from 700-1k+, will be higher depend on the tactic you run such as ET. Your RS/DA will be getting a constant 4-5k if not interrupted. Also when you have your 3 willpower stacks your KI will be getting heals for 1k+ as well, great as a quick backline heal if you get punted, + your hots will now be more effective. Not to mention you now get a free aoe detaunt, becoming more sturdy without guard.

With the attacks being undefendable its now great when enemy tanks decide to babysit you, they will be a benefit to you, if you stand next to a melee DoK/WP that is using grace or sac, be prepared to deal with the undefendable hits, even annoying tanks are no match for the healing potential, so will require communication in an organised group, they still hold the same counters, KD, taunt, absorbs etc, that has not changed, healing has simply become more reliable and allows them to actually do their job at the loss of damage. With the damage nerf to TE/SR and RS/DA, it means you will loose your main damaging skill, but you still have your general abilities to compensate for this, either way the healing it provides is too good to pass up.

I feel that sac DoK is still ahead due to its tree and devour, it gives you damage where WP does not have it, which when playing melee healer is something you will now lack, WP tree is just a bit less involved compared to DoK, SS is still a no go imo. However that is not to say that the WP cannot keep up, it really does provide some fantastic healing. Also on top of devour is the general toolset, you still have dots and a better HD if you plan to run it.

Grace WP – Fantastic healing, average damage, great survivability, could fill the role of a group healer.
Sacrifice DoK – Fantastic healing, slightly better damage, great survivability, could fill the role of a group healer.

In both of these trees you have a lot of leeway in your build, either go for a traditional full melee heal/support, or you can go for the hybrid ( my personal favourite ) so more damage that way, you just loose a bit of healing if you don't slot ET.

Example builds
Dok
Pure melee heal
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... 6:;0:0:0:0:
So many options here, would go for the covenant procs personally because you will most likely always be in vitality, so its just extra healing/damage you are not having to spend for, just as much healing as you can get while still being in melee, ET just makes your healing rock solid.

Hybrid
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=dok ... 9:;0:0:0:0:
My favourite build, plenty of damage, and fantastic healing, your hots and KI will be much less effective, but your melee healing will also increase some, as well as being able to still be a threat on the battlefield, great for roaming. I take FS over WS/SE because I am not a scenario man or a larger group player, I roam in a duo/trio and generally fight larger groups, so FS gives me a spread HD and just added pressure, also it has a 30 ft range so good for pre-casting. Also I just like it more.

WP
Pure melee heal
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wp; ... 4:;0:0:0:0:
Same as DoK, just as much healing as you can get here, GoS just making your heals as solid as they can, if you want to run as a healer in melee as best as possible, you have to take it. Apart from that just going for more healing and survivability.

Hybrid
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wp; ... 4:;0:0:0:0:
All the way up for HoS for some extra damage, even without the 40% its still going to be decent with the automatic crit and extra damage from previous patch, also gives you an opportunity to swap into PoR for some surprise execute damage. Taking GoS again here because unlike DoK you don't need a tactic for the HD, so just more solid heals making you harder to kill.

These are just some very basic builds, there are really so many options to choose from to go with a playstyle you find best. And yes, this is my personal view, everyone is different.

If you made it this far, pm me in game for a manticore because I would have quit after seeing who posted this mess. Lets move onto the the ever famous backline bots.

Now, again not going to split here just going to cover the general idea behind it all. Fist off, the armor issue, lets do some math! So lets start with a base of around 3000 armor, and oh damn, you just got hit by an armor debuff!

3000-1000 = 2000 armor

Such math right, now with the new changes, lets see how this works.

3000 / 2 = 1500 armor
3000 - 1000 / 2 = 1000 armor

The amount of armor reduced is taken into account before the 50% adjustment, so you are not down to 500 armor, you stay at 1000, granted it is a huge jump down from your regular amount, but this means you are no longer an immortal god in most circumstances. But Ade! How am I supposed to survive even with a guard with that amount of armor? Good question, well its called stance dancing, if you are being focused hard swap to CoV/PoD and then you have an increase in your armor values, an aoe detaunt, and a but load of some melee heals considering the ratio swaps, so you can still maintain group healing when you are forced into a melee engagement.

It will take time to adjust and perhaps the values will also need to be tweaked, but with this you really have to decide when you want to swap or hold, much more engaging playstlye. The healing is still good from a backline PoV, and with a steady increase of your pool, it even gives you oppertunites to run different weapons with procs, so when you do get into that melee engage you are even more effective.

These changes are designed around the premise that the classes were created in the intent to make them a capable melee healer, and not – to quote the ever famous Paul Barnett here - ' sit at the back, and I heal, and I heal, and I heal ' which to an extent is what they have become, you are now forced to use your melee strength in order to benefit your group. Grace and Sac have become more than capable to support a group with the heals you can throw out, and you can also with the right builds and gearset increase your potential with stance swapping and stay at the backline until the time comes that you have to defend yourself.

So tldr
Melee healing – Can support a group, highest hps so far, loss of damage, reliable healing.
Melee DPS – Strong, reliable, good utility, loss of healing
Backling healing – Still strong, loss of tanking, ability to swap into melee healing when needed.

[Penril]

-sw change will results into not real change they could crit me for 3970 two days ago.

This only happens with M2/VoN, and assuming you don't dodge FA. The rest of the time, it is not worth using FA because of 3s cast time + nerfed tactic.

So now the tactic is back and FA will do more damage outside of M2/VoN combo, making it more viable. However, you won't see crazy 7k+ (or more) Festerbombs due to the damage cap. You will see 4k at most.

[Bozzax]

My .2$

Dok/wp no more works in a kite grp as melee clearly isn't an opion there. No armor while kiting = dead dok/wp

This is regardless what theoryhammer says. Guess testers don't roam kite group often.

Tested dok melee tho and I dont think you get str from will power (or did I read notes wrong?)

[peterthepan3]

Few points to the naysayers:

1) Max damage in scenario does not mean a class is viable as a DPS. People honestly need to do away with this misconception that max damage = DPS. The Wrath WP was NOT dealing enough DPS to warrant disposing of all the survivability Grace offers. I could top damage before via guilty soul/soul fire, but was I dealing any real pressure ST dmg? No. Am I now? Yes.

2) I tested the Wrath WP extensively and exclusively in pug scenarios, 6v6, normal scenarios and in open. Ade and Torque did, too, but they also focused on Grace. I did a few 6mans (I think we actually did a 6v6, too) with Torque on his Grace WP, me on my Wrath, and we dominated scenarios. Torque was consistently topping scenario heal stats. We even had him run as a second healer (with one runepriest), and came up against some very good destro groups - and he managed to keep us up relatively easy. I admit that I didn't test the heal WP, nor test the Wrath WP in a warband setup, but those were not my intentions - others can do that. I focused exclusively on the viability of the Wrath WP in small-scale settings, and it is a beast to be reckoned with. The DPS DOK still edges it, but it's a step forward in the right direction.

3) The class now requires active usage of a mechanic: if you're a Wrath WP, and you're being focused, you must now switch to Grace prayer for the aoe detaunt and strong melee heals (similar to how a Marauder switches to monstrousity, or a SW switches to assault), also you have a resource pool (RF/SE) to work with whereas before you didn't; if you're a Heal WP, you switch to Grace for the aoe detaunt/melee heals/stronger armor. This new playstyle will require thought and anticipation from the player's behalf, whereas before there was none (in regards to heal WP/DOK - anyone saying otherwise is just kidding themselves).

4) I don't know why people argue a class's viability from the perspective of pug scenarios. If you queue for scenarios without a tank or assisting healers, you will find trouble as a sole heal WP. Why is that a bad thing? Why should you be expected to survive everything simply by merit of having insane amounts of armor? Now you must think and position yourself strategically.

5) Something Aza said earlier about the names of these two classes: Warrior Priest and Disciple of Khaine. The original design of these two classes was to get into the thick of battle (WPs, in lore, are melee beasts). What the team have done here is something the original devs couldn't: they've actualised it.

The vast majority of complaints are from people who, I dare say, can't stand the thought of not being nigh-unkillable anymore. I predict a huge backlash against the heal-spec changes, but I'd wager at least 90% of it will stem from salt-itis, i.e. 'why can I not tank 6 players beating on me anymore whilst making a bacon sandwich?', more than anything else.