[Witch Hunter] Dragon Gun

[Valfaros]

Quote from Penril because it was enough to close my Proposal I will now use it for anything where it fits. Just like this proposal which he moved to discussions on the same day.

Balance should be discussed based on group play, and in this case WH don't need to increase cooldowns since they can always run with a Slayer (who has possibly the strongest cooldown increaser in the game, Shatter Limbs).

[kryss]

Az's proposal would seem benefit solo gankers immensely.

I've been told many, many, many times that 1 on 1 and solo play is not a factor here. I expect it to be always true, viceversa.

[Panzerkasper]

Az's proposal would seem benefit solo gankers immensely.

No it wouldnt, see my post from page 2. It would offer absolutly no alternative to Inqui+Judge spec, neither damage nor utility wise.

[CimbaTest]

I actually like this the proposal a lot. Azarael already pointed out the main reason. AFAIK melee heal ignore healdebuffs which are one of the key abilities a WH could provide. When they decline in usefulness due to an increase of melee healers some kind of adjustment needs to take place for the WH to remain competitive with the WL and Slayer.

Since the nerf of Shatter Limbs for scenario scale fights this seems like a good adjustment

An additional benefit of a viable dragon gun would be a decent initiative debuff with a close to 100% up time on single targets.

The argument that you can apply usefull aoe debuffs with dragon gun might be techincally true but collides with the grp building reality. Initiative debuffs can be far easier applied with the AM snare field. And out going healdebuffs with the KOTBS aura. Even though thats only 25% at least it has 100% up time. And you don't even need to waste a slot on a class that doesn't provide anything else for these types of engagements.

The argument that you can 'tag' people in RvR with it is just pitiful. This is a 13 point ability. It should have some impact greater than leeching marginal amounts of renown in RvR.

Still I believe every class should have access to some basic aoe. But I don't think Dragon Gun is the way to go here.

[porkstar]

Az's proposal would seem benefit solo gankers immensely.

No it wouldnt, see my post from page 2. It would offer absolutly no alternative to Inqui+Judge spec, neither damage nor utility wise.

I can see your point here.

[Penril]

Quote from Penril because it was enough to close my Proposal I will now use it for anything where it fits. Just like this proposal which he moved to discussions on the same day.

Balance should be discussed based on group play, and in this case WH don't need to increase cooldowns since they can always run with a Slayer (who has possibly the strongest cooldown increaser in the game, Shatter Limbs).

You mean this one? viewtopic.php?f=97&t=18422

I will tell you again what I said there: learn the classes before you talk about them. Shatter Limbs is next to useless if there is only a Dok and his tank close to the Slayer. He would need to hit 7 targets in order to increase the CD by 5s.

- The handling of Shatter Limbs has been changed. It will now increase cooldowns by 1 second for every additional target struck by the ability beyond the second target. A target that successfully defends Shatter Limbs will still be considered for the purpose of this check. Examples:

1-2 targets: no cooldown increase
3 targets: 1s cooldown increase
5 targets: 3s cooldown increase
7+ targets: 5s cooldown increase

Your only other option is IB CD increaser, which requires a tactic, a shield, blocking/parrying and only lasts 5 seconds.

[Telen]

It would seem sensible is SL is turned into a mainly orvr ability that a smallscale one replaces it there.

[Atropik]

Have to say, 1st post changes are great, WHs trees are need to be reworked a long time ago, but...

No it wouldnt, see my post from page 2. It would offer absolutly no alternative to Inqui+Judge spec, neither damage nor utility wise.

This is absolutely true, no one would ever trade Seal of destruction+healdebuff or 50% crit dmg for 13 useless mastery points while running a group premade. The main reason - all other abilities in Conf tree provides 0 dps growth, as WEs PA does.

[Jarama]

In my humble opinion keeping the DG AoE, while slightly buffing its delve, and only applying the bullet + the debuff cooldown on the main target as mentionned above on this thread looks the most logical option to me here. Otherwise we might consider keeping the appliance of the bullet debuff on all targets and keep the same damage or slightly lower it. Although i prefer the first option.
Do not remove the only AoE feature of the class.

My main concern is: will On your Knees benefit from the same effect? What about balance for the WE?
I mostly play the WE in 6man group and it would be as interesting for us as for the WH.

[Hastykrasty]

As a main WH in live and in RoR i believe that a CD (single target) increase would be better than the AoE damage and debuffs (that last for only 5 sec). A damage boost is also required, I can't spend 5 accusation for that actual dmg.
I only add that I played on live this tree (dragon gun with heal from bullet tactic) and I agree to all the critics that were already said.
Still, it isn't enought to change spec tree from the actual popular build.