[Witch Hunter] Dragon Gun

[kryss]

Inc healdebuff on 1 backline healer ia complete trash considering your warband is gonna fight the other warbands frontline 90% of the time and not even gonna hit their backline unless they are terrible possitioned. Its not gonna do anything. And your argument is based on solo play rather then composed synnergy for warband scale fights. A AoE outgoing healdebuff is gonna have a much higher impact in this type of playstyle then a single target HD ever gonna have. Dragon Gun is the only skill that offers this kinda utillity for WH's

On a side note: how are you dying right away with a 10sec AoE detaunt, 100% dissrupt, 100% Parry?

Here's the build btw....
RoR.builders - Witch Hunter

Actually my reasoning is not only for solo play, but also for small scale guerrilla and 6vs6 fights, which are the right spot for a WH (not WBs). AoE DG is useless over there

Edit: i forgot to comment the spec you are proposing, which is the best way to totally gimp a PvP WH

[CimbaTest]

No healers worst nightmare is getting outgoing healdebuffed aswell as their dps getting incomming healdebuffed at the same time as their taking sustained damage. Something that currently is possible with AoE's from RP + WH or WE + Zealot/DoK. Burst damage killing is achived by CC and timed cordination. In ORVR sustained damage comes from abillities and burst is achived using CC's and morales. The propsed changes is killing a synnergy build in large scale fights for the sake of WH getting better solo capabillity. Isn't this completly backwards thinking considering changes should be made from ateamplay perspective? Especially since WH allready have 2+ builds for small scale thats allready preforming really really good?

The KOTBS also has a an AOE outgoing healdebuff aura. Called 'Now's Our Chance' which provides a 25% outgoing healdebuff. Since a WH can only apply it's 50% OHD 50% of the time the effect of the abilities is the same when fights of 10+ seconds are considered. Haojin stated here that fights of that scale usually last between 30-40 seconds.
You could argue that with WW the WH could achieve a better effect. However I doubt that the lifetime of a WH who jumps into the backline of a WB extends very much past the Shroud of Magus duration. Especially if you consider that organized WB don't have much of backline to begin with.

If you want to argue that a WH has higher survivability than a KOTBS you can certainly try. But I don't think you will succeed. Additionally the KOTBS offers more utility in the backline then just a OHD, like punting healers away.

[Combi]

I'd change Dragon Gun to be a ST finisher. Would increase the dmg of it 3x, change cd to 20sec, and would give an effect to it like Rampage on slayer. And the increase would be only meaningful if used at 4 or 5 accusations.

Costs 35 AP 30ft range
Insta-Cast 20.0s cooldown
4 lines of blabla

A pistol shot that deals damage to your target, and makes all of your attacks undefendable based on combo points.
1 Accusation: 444 damage, 5 seconds.
2 Accusations: 567 damage, 6 seconds.
3 Accusations: 693 damage, 7 seconds.
4 Accusations: 819 damage, 10 seconds.
5 Accusations: 942 damage, 20 seconds.

[Azarael]

I do not understand this insistence on preserving Dragon Gun because of its applications in zerg play, when WH doesn't have a place in zerg play. As long as WH is a poor option that will not be used, the presence of AoE on the class doesn't matter. Any spec that isn't viable is a dead spec.

[Combi]

And Sweeping Razor could be changed so, that Razor Strike decreases the AP cost of your next non-execution ability by 10.
Or whateva, no better idea atm in my head, even if the above is terrible

[kryss]

I do not understand this insistence on preserving Dragon Gun because of its applications in zerg play, when WH doesn't have a place in zerg play. As long as WH is a poor option that will not be used, the presence of AoE on the class doesn't matter. Any spec that isn't viable is a dead spec.

That is exactly my point, people are even talking about AoE farming (crazy stuff). Most of these proposals come from guys who don't even play the class: if they did, they wouldn't even dare thinking about this nonsense.

Going back to the point: a GCD increaser+good dmg seems a solid option, but I also like the undefendable attacks buff. Whatever makes this 13 pt. skill useful: just keep in mind that in order to spec it, a WH will have to lose BaL (a lot of dps+chance to kill even if disabled) and choose to lose PTF+SOD (a heal debuff +, again, A LOT of DPS) or PW+crit (KD+core tactic). The utility and/or dmg of the new DG should balance this difficult decision.

[Morf]

I do not understand this insistence on preserving Dragon Gun because of its applications in zerg play, when WH doesn't have a place in zerg play. As long as WH is a poor option that will not be used, the presence of AoE on the class doesn't matter. Any spec that isn't viable is a dead spec.

That is exactly my point, people are even talking about AoE farming (crazy stuff). Most of these proposals come from guys who don't even play the class: if they did, they wouldn't even dare thinking about this nonsense.

No you both are missing the point, if you are playing solo or in a group you will use the cookie cutter judgement/inquisition spec, NO change to confession will make it useful in solo or group play, you need fanatical cleansing.pistol whip and punish the false to be effective leaving no points left for a finisher in confession.
As this will always be the case confession doesnt need to be a solo/group focused because it will never be used for that so confession should (and is) focus on aoe, while as i said 99% of players who choose Wh (or We) dont want to play in wb,s/zerg aoe spam situations every class needs an option to do so.

What is the point in changing dragon gun or confession as a whole to be designed for solo/group play when it will never be used anyway ?

[kryss]

I do not understand this insistence on preserving Dragon Gun because of its applications in zerg play, when WH doesn't have a place in zerg play. As long as WH is a poor option that will not be used, the presence of AoE on the class doesn't matter. Any spec that isn't viable is a dead spec.

That is exactly my point, people are even talking about AoE farming (crazy stuff). Most of these proposals come from guys who don't even play the class: if they did, they wouldn't even dare thinking about this nonsense.

No you both are missing the point, if you are playing solo or in a group you will use the cookie cutter judgement/inquisition spec, NO change to confession will make it useful in solo or group play, you need fanatical cleansing.pistol whip and punish the false to be effective leaving no points left for a finisher in confession.
As this will always be the case confession doesnt need to be a solo/group focused because it will never be used for that so confession should (and is) focus on aoe, while as i said 99% of players who choose Wh (or We) dont want to play in wb,s/zerg aoe spam situations every class needs an option to do so.

What is the point in changing dragon gun or confession as a whole to be designed for solo/group play when it will never be used anyway ?

With your ideas the tree will never, ever be used anyway, cause it's crap and it will stay as it is. A good GCD increaser could (could, ok, but it's worth a try) make up for the loss of PtF and SoD if it really screws up the mdps rotations, or healers' abilities. I am Judge/Inqui and I'd never change it for anything else right now, but I could think about going conf/judg if the GCD increase is strong enough, or at least try the spec. Besides, there are also some WHs who like the dueling spec (Judg/conf), useless in parties but kinda ok for soloing

[Penril]

Can't another class take care of the heal debuff, leaving room for the WH to spec Confession/Judgement? Specially that WP now has a 50% Curse inc heal debuff.

So you could go with something like this: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wh; ... 5:;0:0:0:0:

I mean, that's what OYK WEs do. Sure, that spec has Frenzied Mayhem, PA and EoIP but as Aza said, if Confession needs more love it will probably get it. Dragon Gun is probably only the first step.



(If it were up to me, I would mess around with Seeker's Triumph, maybe changing it from 50% to 100% or something like that).

[Morf]

With your ideas the tree will never, ever be used anyway, cause it's crap and it will stay as it is. A good GCD increaser could (could, ok, but it's worth a try) make up for the loss of PtF and SoD if it really screws up the mdps rotations, or healers' abilities. I am Judge/Inqui and I'd never change it for anything else right now, but I could think about going conf/judg if the GCD increase is strong enough, or at least try the spec. Besides, there are also some WHs who like the dueling spec (Judg/conf), useless in parties but kinda ok for soloing

My point is that you are suggesting removing any aoe possibilities for the class on a maybe someone will use dragon gun for dueling, every class needs some aoe capabilities and while wh/we are st gank classes they still need something.

Also as for cd increase check my initial post, zealots cannot cleanse wh stuff and they cannot kite wh's due to snap shot change, they can only hot and flash heal, if flash heal is put on a 5 sec cd they have no means of healing themselves.

If you had to ask me i would cut dragon guns CD in half (5 secs) add a dot component that acted as straight damage and was capable of benefiting from damage procs and change sweeping razor to hit up to 9 targets but reduce the damage by X %, the damage reduction would need testing to be balanced with other aoe abilities.

It is not the fault of the wh that players choose them to play as a gank class or that they have bad aoe paths, instead of pushing them further away from being viable in wb/zerg/aoe battles allow them to have a use in those situations.