Changelog 25/11/16

[lastalien]

How do you know? Have you tried the new changes? Of course not, they're not even live. Therefore, a lot of your post is just conjecture. By the way, I'm not trying to be overly critical or attack you personally, I just think that discarding something out of hand that is discussed in the best interest of the game is a bit silly.

Are you reading this one?

2) Base damage of all AoE attacks drops by 50%.
5) AoE attacks reduce in damage as more friendly targets are struck. The reduction is additive with the increase in 4).


Even in the current environment solo AoE BW will not be able to kill the target with heal and guard.

[Azarael]

1) No AoE cap, it's gone.
2) Base damage of all AoE attacks drops by 50%.
3) The range of cleave-type PBAoEs increases to ~45-50 feet.
4) AoE attacks increase in damage as more enemy targets are struck, hitting their previous level of 100% after 9 targets, and going up to a suitable maximum when hitting tons of targets.
5) AoE attacks reduce in damage as more friendly targets are struck. The reduction is additive with the increase in 4).

1. It's Ok, Because right now we do not have enough damage for killing zerg with AOE limit - 9 targets.
2. There is no need, in the first, it strongly reduces the flexibility in SL/CH, they can not be used as the main AoE build, secondly, the players have to constantly change carier to achieve the best effect. Often, the game starts as a confrontation between gang packs and grows into a Zerg rollers. It is trite to enrage the people, for example by changing the career I rearrange a lot of skill place.
3. Its will be OP, and i am going to my Slayer
4. Removing the cap AOE enough, there is no need to scale damage
5. This will kill all the social basis of the game, will not be necessary in the guild, it will work to the party.

2) There is a need. There has to be a base damage reduction plus upscaling or you quickly end up with ludicrous amounts of AoE damage. If it means AoE attacks (like Inevitable Doom) stop being used in small scale, even better.

3) Feel free. Enough people complain about RDPS that I am not bothered if you think it would be a substantial MDPS buff against zerg.

4) Yes there is a need to scale damage. Think about it. What will happen if you don't scale damage at all? Bomb warband vs bomb warband. It needs to be set up so that a small number of AoErs against a large number have the advantage, compared to a large number versus a large number, which is NOT what we want. Lifting the cap alone won't do that.

5) See above. Damage reduction for AoEing through friendly targets hits the middle and back lines of a zerg and encourages splitting.

[Azarael]

The friendly saoking dmg modifer makes no sence in terms of mechanics in the game imo. It completly dissregards things like Guard, OathFriend, Dark Protector and actually makes tanks something you don't want on the frontline anymore. Same thing with melee healing or any buffs/debuffs/morale healers witch requires you to get into close range.

That's why the reduction is additive. You cleave two or three of your own guys to hit lots of people? It doesn't matter. You cleave two or three or four of your own guys to hit 3 or 4 people? Damage reduction inc.

I can't understand why people complain about this. A consideration with using any kind of splash effect is that you can hit your own troops with it. That is nothing new and MMOs are the ugly exception in not having any kind of handling to punish incorrect use of AoE.

This is gonna be the moast optimal formation after purposed changes were tanks are no longer doing anything, they are just staying behind the dps at max max guardrange facing away and spamming hold the line to make sure they don't soak friendly AoE hits as their role of saoking AoE hit caps at the frontline is completly gone, while healers stay spread out at the back at max range to reduce AoE damage.



(Sorry for shitty paint demonstration)

I'm more than happy to fix HTL! to become directional if this becomes the case, but only if proven to be the case. I have always disliked HTL's lack of directionality.

Also, that's a really bad idea for two reasons:

1) ST didn't stop being a thing - attack from the end
2) Enfilade AoE fire down the line from either end.

[lastalien]

2) There is a need. There has to be a base damage reduction plus upscaling or you quickly end up with ludicrous amounts of AoE damage. If it means AoE attacks (like Inevitable Doom) stop being used in small scale, even better.

3) Feel free. Enough people complain about RDPS that I am not bothered if you think it would be a substantial MDPS buff against zerg.

4) Yes there is a need to scale damage. Think about it. What will happen if you don't scale damage at all? Bomb warband vs bomb warband. It needs to be set up so that a small number of AoErs against a large number have the advantage, compared to a large number versus a large number, which is NOT what we want. Lifting the cap alone won't do that.

5) See above. Damage reduction for AoEing through friendly targets hits the middle and back lines of a zerg and encourages splitting.

I will not argue with you. On our server, when introduced 100 sets and procs (especially protective), become successful WB - 3 mele packs and 1 Assist pack. There will be the same. That is, you expect the river PUG's crying

[Azarael]

If you're not going to argue with me, please don't post. Thanks

[lastalien]

If you're not going to argue with me, please don't post. Thanks

OK. We will gradually pass through all obstacles
I have all types of classes

I can switch.

[Thayli]

Spoiler:

The friendly saoking dmg modifer makes no sence in terms of mechanics in the game imo. It completly dissregards things like Guard, OathFriend, Dark Protector and actually makes tanks something you don't want on the frontline anymore. Same thing with melee healing or any buffs/debuffs/morale healers witch requires you to get into close range.

That's why the reduction is additive. You cleave two or three of your own guys to hit lots of people? It doesn't matter. You cleave two or three or four of your own guys to hit 3 or 4 people? Damage reduction inc.

I can't understand why people complain about this. A consideration with using any kind of splash effect is that you can hit your own troops with it. That is nothing new and MMOs are the ugly exception in not having any kind of handling to punish incorrect use of AoE.

When you explain it like this it makes a bit more sense than the idea of "diminishing returns upon friendly fire", which sounded horrible initially. I think a lot of people are (and will be) confused until we see some concrete changes on paper, though. It took me a post or two as well, not to mention in-game chat is already filled with whine even though no changes have been made yet.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

The friendly saoking dmg modifer makes no sence in terms of mechanics in the game imo. It completly dissregards things like Guard, OathFriend, Dark Protector and actually makes tanks something you don't want on the frontline anymore. Same thing with melee healing or any buffs/debuffs/morale healers witch requires you to get into close range.

That's why the reduction is additive. You cleave two or three of your own guys to hit lots of people? It doesn't matter. You cleave two or three or four of your own guys to hit 3 or 4 people? Damage reduction inc.

I can't understand why people complain about this. A consideration with using any kind of splash effect is that you can hit your own troops with it. That is nothing new and MMOs are the ugly exception in not having any kind of handling to punish incorrect use of AoE.

This is gonna be the moast optimal formation after purposed changes were tanks are no longer doing anything, they are just staying behind the dps at max max guardrange facing away and spamming hold the line to make sure they don't soak friendly AoE hits as their role of saoking AoE hit caps at the frontline is completly gone, while healers stay spread out at the back at max range to reduce AoE damage.



(Sorry for shitty paint demonstration)

I'm more than happy to fix HTL! to become directional if this becomes the case, but only if proven to be the case. I have always disliked HTL's lack of directionality.

Also, that's a really bad idea for two reasons:

1) ST didn't stop being a thing - attack from the end
2) Enfilade AoE fire down the line from either end.

HTL is allready directionally it's a cone were you protect the people behind you, stacks up to 3 times. This is the effect you're after not the self buff. The problem however isn't HTL really, the problem is that tanks being on the frontline with your sugestion is that it causes you group to deal less dmg due to the friendly AoE soaking. And therefor becomes something you don't really want on the fronline. Having em in the middle were they don't soak diectional AoE is gonna be the moast optimal. And that means tanks in ORVR gonna be **** boring to play as you don't get to hit anything and basicly just standing within guard range and try to aim HTL. And guess wich tanks are allredy best at this with passive group buffs. Chosen/KOTBS.
All other tanks need to hit stuff to get their group buffs.

As for possitioning and vournabillity to exposed flanks. It's hard to say how that that gonna be work out. Tanks in the middle line will have it pretty easy to swap guards to backline in case of momentarly melee trains wich you gonna have to deal with after you deal with the the enemy front anyway.

[Azarael]

You misunderstand me on HTL!. The problem with HTL is that it should work like this:

You -> Tank -> <- Enemy

But it can work like this because there's no orientation/positioning check:

<- Tank You -> <- Enemy

[Marsares]

You misunderstand me on HTL!. The problem with HTL is that it should work like this:

You -> Tank -> <- Enemy

But it can work like this because there's no orientation/positioning check:

<- Tank You -> <- Enemy

I agree. Currently, the most optimal way to funnel, for example, is not to tank wall, but to actually place the DPS first (out of LOS), then the healers and then have the tanks standing outside the AOE bomb (so they only take guard damage) and facing backwards to the gate whilst spamming HTL (so they cover all DPS and healers).

However if HTL would work like you suggest, under the AOE changes that we are discussing, the problem then becomes that tanks are in the line of fire and thus inadvertently create a debuff on the AOE damage. Whatever changes we end up with, tanks should have a more important role to play than just being guard-bot and HTL spammer.