Changelog 06/12/2016

[Morf]

You know Maras can run with around 55% disrupt (make it 70% if ONE tank holds the line, 100% if there are 3 which shoudn't be a problem in RvR) and slot armor talismans too? Sure, they won't have the armor buff/tactic from engies, but they can become immune to Armor penetration with monstro procs. And they are way deadlier than engies in this spec since they keep:

a) Armor debuff (same value as a glass-cannon spec'd mara)
b) Wounds debuff (same as above)
c) Heal debuff (same as above)
d) ST pull
e) 100ft ranged KD with a 10s CD (which can't be dodged or disrupted), which will proc all the time thanks to that 55%-70% disrupt
f) FoF ranged root

However Engies get a +disrupt/dodge turret (which reduces their range drastically) and apparently the class is broken now? Nah.

As you like to say so often in balance discussions, this isnt about mara its about engi, anyway if we must use perfect situations like you listed above, a def engi having oathe from an IB you can be close to m1 concealment levels of disrupt if spec right and im sure everyone who plays a rdps knows how effective concealment is, 90% disrupt in perfect situations ?, possibly.

As for keg, you will never be a pure healer but dont underestimate the effectiveness of it, everyone should know how willpower scales so badly which is why you can have really low willpower and still heal well if you can heal crit, kegs heal crit for 500+ that is no joke of a heal especially as you can have 2 kegs up for 5 secs every 10 secs.

What i would like to suggest instead of having tinker/support turret focused on being a selfish def buff why not have it as a group or aoe buff ? what buff idk but it would help them fulfil the role of support and take away the selfish nature of the current buff.

[Penril]

If people want a Keg nerf or a Destro equivalent, go to the Balance Discussion forum and make a proposal there.

We had enough with Kegs in this thread.

[XNakaaX]

@Penril
So its still only 10% Disrupt the mara got as a class tactic and the rest isnt class specific.

[wargrimnir]

And yet no destro class has a comparable AoE passive heal. If you have no problem with the amount of healing that the keg does then you should support buffing the only destro side heal that comes the closest to mirroring it, the Chosen healing aura, which currently only heals for 24 every 3 seconds IF you are being damaged. Bring that up par, and see if order has any problems with it...

Magus has a self heal too if I'm not wrong which is like the same as a potion ?

After looking thru the Magus abilities on the career builder I don't see a self heal ability. However it wouldn't matter if they did, the keg is an AoE heal not a self heal. The closest corollary ability I could find destro side is the Chosen aura, which is why I suggested that it be buffed to give both sides a passive AoE heal.

9pt ability - Daemon tree
Aegis of Orange Fire - 150 Wounds buff for 20s. 1m cooldown.

Wounds buffs are effectively heals that also raise your max hp. You don't lose current hp when they expire unless you're over the cap.

[Penril]

@Penril
So its still only 10% Disrupt the mara got as a class tactic and the rest isnt class specific.

I see what you are saying. Engi (and Magus) can attain an extra 22% (since the buff from the turret is now 32% and not 48%). Of course, their range is gutted.

[Morf]

And all that dodge/disrupt is useless against tanks and mdps. Have a tank Shatter Enchantment on the Engi (to remove his "OP" armor buff, which can't be covered that easily since Order doesn't have many enchantments... AM i guess? k). Have a Mara/BG armor debuff him, done.

Well thats the point you can maintain tank level of mitigation from physical damage while having huge dodge/disrupt.

Btw cast burn salve first, so you dont lose your armor buff on first shatter, flak jacket has a 10 sec cooldown you can recast it for 35 ap during combat and as a tinker/support engi you wont have ap issues due to extra ammo.

[Penril]

And all that dodge/disrupt is useless against tanks and mdps. Have a tank Shatter Enchantment on the Engi (to remove his "OP" armor buff, which can't be covered that easily since Order doesn't have many enchantments... AM i guess? k). Have a Mara/BG armor debuff him, done.

Well thats the point you can maintain tank level of mitigation from physical damage while having huge dodge/disrupt.

Btw cast burn salve first, so you dont lose your armor buff on first shatter, flak jacket has a 10 sec cooldown you can recast it for 35 ap during combat and as a tinker/support engi you wont have ap issues due to extra ammo.

And Shatter Enchantment has a 5s CD, your point?

[Ravai]

While the optimal solution to Bolt of Change is to fix its range at 150ft regardless of any increases in play, this is something that's currently beyond us (and will most likely remain beyond us as we'd have to figure out how to do this on the client post-client control.)

I think until you can do this and keep the bolt of change at 5sec cooldown its the only way to make the class viable dps wise (I say viable as I cant help but compare this spec to what a sorc can do), 10 seconds really kills what is the bread and butter of magus st dps. they are stationary, have a pet that can be 2 shot which sets them back 16seconds from full power and any pressure that forces them to move kills their dps also (a moving magus is still not dangerous in the slightest unlike sorc/bw even with the changes to flamer pet, there is no burst potential in changing line other than fluff dots for killing unhealed targets in lord room defenses). I really wish this was a fun alternative to havoc and worked but it just doesnt, there just isn't any combination of abilities I cant get to work that kills a target thats recieving even mediocre healing, the burst isnt there and ap is gone before consistant damage can even dent healing.

I dont have to explain what sorc/bw are capable of your well aware but an example. 10second cooldown on word or pain/boiling blood isn't noticable when they can do a fireball/doombolt rotation or simply switch up wop/bb for vision of torment/slow boil in between waiting for the cd.

Magus has one means of starting a "potentially dangerous" rotation (if it doesnt crit it does like 1300 on average which for a 3second cast is awful on a 10second cooldown, the burst is pretty much over at this point without a crit).

In short a single target magus IS bolt of change, every rotation (and there are a few) are built around this skill fronting the damage, flickering red fire is a pale comparison to gunblast(hollow points+added auto attacks) and so it isnt a realistic alternative, mutating blue fire has no flight time so also not able to start a burst rotation. We're almost left twiddling our thumbs at this point, feels very weak especially if you dont crit on 3 bolts in a row then your looking at 30 seconds of no kill pressure at all, which considering the setup with stacks and positioning doesnt seem worth it when a sorc can apply constant bursts 24/7

Bare in mind this opinion is based on playing a magus with the sole purpose of fronting a group in a dps roll ( in some instances replacing sorc, but still not better even with 5sec cd).

Hope this doesnt come accross as a rant and you can take some constructive points away from it, the class really is extremely reliant on boc to the point of it being incredably weak when its on cd. I guess we can hope your able to make the 150 range and 5sec cooldown a reality.

[Morf]

And all that dodge/disrupt is useless against tanks and mdps. Have a tank Shatter Enchantment on the Engi (to remove his "OP" armor buff, which can't be covered that easily since Order doesn't have many enchantments... AM i guess? k). Have a Mara/BG armor debuff him, done.

Well thats the point you can maintain tank level of mitigation from physical damage while having huge dodge/disrupt.

Btw cast burn salve first, so you dont lose your armor buff on first shatter, flak jacket has a 10 sec cooldown you can recast it for 35 ap during combat and as a tinker/support engi you wont have ap issues due to extra ammo.

And Shatter Enchantment has a 5s CD, your point?

No its your point, you are saying just shatter it, you can cover it and recast it so shattering it isnt the answer.

Also seeing as the dodge/disrupt values have been reduced since this discussion started, disregard some of my previous points however the levels of dodge/disrupt are still worrying given the mitigation of physical damage and magic damage being there downfall.

[Skullgrin]

Magus has a self heal too if I'm not wrong which is like the same as a potion ?

After looking thru the Magus abilities on the career builder I don't see a self heal ability. However it wouldn't matter if they did, the keg is an AoE heal not a self heal. The closest corollary ability I could find destro side is the Chosen aura, which is why I suggested that it be buffed to give both sides a passive AoE heal.

9pt ability - Daemon tree
Aegis of Orange Fire - 150 Wounds buff for 20s. 1m cooldown.

Wounds buffs are effectively heals that also raise your max hp. You don't lose current hp when they expire unless you're over the cap.

That doesn't apply to anyone near the Magus the way a keg heals everyone near it. However Penril told me to shut up about this, so this will be my last post on the subject, until I perhaps formulate a post for the discussions forum.