[Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2

[Vdova]

I agree it could Be an advantage when 2 engineer are fighting against 2 mdps for exemple (2vs2 or against pugs)
You won't tell me that 300heal (on 9 random allies) every 3sec would make huge imbalanced? One heal keg doesn't cover the damage of a single aoe dot .
In sc you put a keg , destro just need to move out of keg and all order mdps will follow destro and they would be out of keg heal .
Keg is a static hot , fight moves could make it useless .
Keg heal would get an advantage in lordroom / funnel etc
But this is the best place for all aoe am I wrong ? All aoe are better in lordroom / funnel I don't think keg took more advantage in a funnel than a choppa aoe / sorc aoe / or any other aoe heal .
Aoe is made to be the best in small place.
Keg is interuptable , it takes 2 sec to cast , and this is static hot to many way to deal with it (you can also kill the engineer will be faster to don't have many keg)

So there shouldnt be any issue to mirror this worthles skill to destro side right?

[davispeed]

Spoiler:

i too think that at the very least Keg could act similar way to Pit of Shades, where one cannot overlap the other. Anyone experiencing RvR vs many engi's can agree that there is quite a bit of keg stacking, and at that point it is certainly an issue.

Just my opinion though.

Not an issue since if they stack kegs, they would have to stay put and be easy kills for another group or wb. I cant take this complaint serious, sorry but if you got five sitting ducks vs five mobile with half a brain you focus fire. As always.

Seriously, Wich game are you playing?

Do you even leave Warcamp bro ?

User warned for this post.

- wargrimnir

[Grunbag]

I agree it could Be an advantage when 2 engineer are fighting against 2 mdps for exemple (2vs2 or against pugs)
You won't tell me that 300heal (on 9 random allies) every 3sec would make huge imbalanced? One heal keg doesn't cover the damage of a single aoe dot .
In sc you put a keg , destro just need to move out of keg and all order mdps will follow destro and they would be out of keg heal .
Keg is a static hot , fight moves could make it useless .
Keg heal would get an advantage in lordroom / funnel etc
But this is the best place for all aoe am I wrong ? All aoe are better in lordroom / funnel I don't think keg took more advantage in a funnel than a choppa aoe / sorc aoe / or any other aoe heal .
Aoe is made to be the best in small place.
Keg is interuptable , it takes 2 sec to cast , and this is static hot to many way to deal with it (you can also kill the engineer will be faster to don't have many keg)

So there shouldnt be any issue to mirror this worthles skill to destro side right?

What s the issue of This thread ?
Limit the target of the keg ? It already has a cap and it's 9 : but I guess it was more :"should keg have to affect only party ?"
So does actually the issue changes , and now is "does we have to mirror keg?"
Magus has 2 heals abilities don't think he need one more , and his +1500 hp instant cast is like having free potions so it's actually great .
If you start mirroring all abilities , it'll be endless : if you give a keg to magus , why engineer would not have the magus 2abilities self heal etc etc . We should focus on original issue of this thread I think.

[Glorian]

@tesq: keg heals the 9 nearest people

I doubt that. Wounded tank was near to me and 9 different people got the heal tic from keg.
If your plan is to heal only the tanks with it you need to have the second line 35-60 feet behind the tankwall. And the engie running back and forth all the time.


@engie being dps:

Super tinkerer Engi with flame turret and full armor talis is not dps. He is with BS 500 and do hardly damage.

Dps engi with 1000 balistik and Grenade Turret or gun turret melts in seconds vs a sorc attack. No amount of kegs can heal that focused fire.

[Grunbag]

@tesq: keg heals the 9 nearest people

I doubt that. Wounded tank was near to me and 9 different people got the heal tic from keg.
If your plan is to heal only the tanks with it you need to have the second line 35-60 feet behind the tankwall. And the engie running back and forth all the time.


@engie being dps:

Super tinkerer Engi with flame turret and full armor talis is not dps. He is with BS 500 and do hardly damage.

Dps engi with 1000 balistik and Grenade Turret or gun turret melts in seconds vs a sorc attack. No amount of kegs can heal that focused fire.

Tinkerer is with 500BS if he takes masterful aim , but full def he's around 390 BS .

Just look at the result of the sc where all this discussion began : a engineer made a record 198k heal in a sc but at the same time he made only 60k dmg : you can see how ridiculous his damage is, he prob use only aoe attack so his dps is useless .
Yes he can stand in melee with new flameniff turret and wth big armor , but those kind of engineer won't make any damage . He is only here to buff /debuff .
This is actually a great exemple to show everyone that engineer have many possibility of build but we have to chose between being strong and tanky but having no dps at all , or having good damage boost but no survivability .

[Glorian]

Also I doubt the 195k is all the Keg.

I played battle of praag some month ago.
I was spamming keg like hell as I do allways. Another engie did too. At the end he had 40k more healing which I couldn't believe. He told me he used:
Cleansing Wind III
Which directly shown into healed if he cleanses a shitload of dots in an instant.

If you have 10 dots on you and you remove them you have 3500 health in an instant. Every 2 minutes. Some other people might tell how many dots they remove when they are focused.

Also grunbag repeated my own statement:

Engi is not dps.
He has 2 dps builds and one support build. The later makes not damage and survives and heals.

[Grunbag]

YesGlorian . I also noticed something in sc : dps build doesn't have a huge keg stats (rarely more than 10k heal) because :
1) It cost 35 ap
2) if you want to spam (and get the last double tick) It'd stop/broke engineers dps rotation
3) if dps engineer are focusing a healer or any target they won't stop their focus just to spam à heal (I think dps engineer only deploy a keg if they are targeted , then they don't use keg for their group but only for them self regardless who is standing close to their keg)
4) to be efficient keg require ap tactic (as a tinkerer you suffer lack of ap really quickly) and expert skirmish tactic . I doubt dps engineer would sacrifice 2 tactic just to heal their groups .

Don't think this is op since you have to take at least 3 tactic to use full potential of a keg : ancestral tactic (more armor to stand in melee and deploy at the right place your keg) , expert skirmish (to deploy 1second faster the keg) , and extra ammo to not suffer of lack of ap .
So basically it just left you to chose 1 tactic . So to me it's is not a free heal you have to spec for it

[megadeath]

Spoiler:

Not an issue since if they stack kegs, they would have to stay put and be easy kills for another group or wb. I cant take this complaint serious, sorry but if you got five sitting ducks vs five mobile with half a brain you focus fire. As always.

But it never happens. We either get 48 sitting ducks against 24 mobile, or 5 sitting ducks behind a keep wall.
Dont forget that your keg stacks with healers. And order healing classes are better then destro healing classes aswell.

We don't discuss balance based on 24v48. Prove that Keg healing is broken in even fights between equally skilled players - Penril

[Grunbag]

On the engineer top 20 renown on armory , I only count 5 def engineer all the 15 others has dps build stats .
So there is not so much engineer playing full tinkerer build (the build where you only stay in melee)
The % of tinkerer would decrease on lower rr engineer cause this is more viable to be sniper build when you have a low lvl/rr.
If you are a engineer sniper I guess you better hide on wall keep and not behind your tank to heal them .

[megadeath]

Spoiler:

On the engineer top 20 renown on armory , I only count 5 def engineer all the 15 others has dps build stats .

is more viable to be sniper build when you have a low lvl/rr.

10/10 argumentation. Anyway you can easily spec sniper with keg.

Consistent low quality posts will have you removed from the balance forums for not following the rules.

- wargrimnir