[Eng/Magus] Sticky Bombs / Seed of Chaos

[7rere7]

Small improvements to all abilities and tactics that need it would add up ,such as giving seed of chaos & sticky bomb a damage increase .
Probably OP - + buffs would not be brought up as much.

I think mdps should be the only class that have a heal debuff . Mdps risk the most, they have to be directly on their target enemy ,usually in the middle of the battle field ,and will be focused down first.

[7rere7]

Then put it on the application. Adding damage, just to add damage, isn't the solution.

I am missing something here. The ability does not do any significant dps. It is completely outshined by similar spec'd, and non spec'd abilities.

It is nearly as a waste of a GCD and AP. My suggested changes would make it a useful dps ability.

What is the issue with taking a weak and semi broken dps ability, and making it into a useful dps ability?

You can make that case for most classes in the game.

DPS isn't the issue. Engi puts out amazing DPS. The problem lies in the fact that engi/magus rely heavily on the layering of dots to add to get their kills since their burst is so much slower than other range DPS classes. The issue is the ease of cleansing and lack of a useful ability to offset it (e.g. a heal debuff, silence, etc.).

If healers are wasting their cleanses ,stripping the several dot abilities a engie and Magus have ,then its a plus .

[Grunbag]

Could someone please list the original Engineer abilities in this thread. One of you engies has it. I forget which one. Actually, is there a thread or a link that lists all the original abilities?

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=10707&start=380

I listed them all here

[Grunbag]

Then put it on the application. Adding damage, just to add damage, isn't the solution.

I am missing something here. The ability does not do any significant dps. It is completely outshined by similar spec'd, and non spec'd abilities.

It is nearly as a waste of a GCD and AP. My suggested changes would make it a useful dps ability.

What is the issue with taking a weak and semi broken dps ability, and making it into a useful dps ability?

You can make that case for most classes in the game.

DPS isn't the issue. Engi puts out amazing DPS. The problem lies in the fact that engi/magus rely heavily on the layering of dots to add to get their kills since their burst is so much slower than other range DPS classes. The issue is the ease of cleansing and lack of a useful ability to offset it (e.g. a heal debuff, silence, etc.).

If your issue Is cleanse (which is not the discussion here) I don't believe that even if you add a silence or a heal debuff to engineer it'd solve cleanse issue .

Karast propose to have good aoe abilities in grenadier tree instead of a ST low dot.

I understand your Point of view about cleanse , that's why maybe I said that having more direct aoe damage in this tree would be better to have some non cleanse-able grenade attack . This could be something we can propose for strafin run maybe .

Penril already said that he don't believe in a heal debuff for engineer since engineer got buffed already .

I'm not against bringing back pepper bomb (engineer silence) , but it could be something high in tree (replacing strafin run?) to prevent rifleman to not take both keg and silence .
This way maybe less player would chose keg and take silence instead.

[Karast]

The main reason I would like to see these abilities changed to be direct damage burst, is because low damage dots are worthless, and even if cleanse wasn't an issue they would still be worthless.

The damage on all of the AoE dots in the trees are just bad. Even Naplam and Mist are lackluster and they are the top abilities. With all of the dots up, and naplam / mist on a target you provide no pressure to a dok / wp that just spams gheal every 1 second. The damage is just horribly low since dots take a heavy mitigation from toughness, and the values on these dots are just so low to begin with.

Every ability in these trees needs a good look over because they took the heaviest nerf bat in the game early on, and the don't have the strength of the bw/sorc mechanic to power them through.

Having 4-5 dots up just isn't an effective strategy since it can be easily ignore with ghealing, and a few hots. They are pure fluff, and the only thing that kills in this game is spike.

Now if that needs to change, I am all for it. But changing the stat values, and toughness mitigation levels on dozens of abilities, and intentionally reshaping the whole balancing for all dot based specs is a huge shift.

I am not against doing that, but even if dok / wp didn't have group cleanse, they still have nothing to fear from weak dots, no matter how many you stack.

[Tesq]

uhm dont agree on dissolving mist; the dmg add up and scale up the longer a target is on the pot; that + 3 aoe dot + direct aoe skill make quite the damage

the problem is that sorc do this by 1 skill and can spam it every 8 sec, while magus pot not only dosen't stack but also it have a long re positioning time; i can understand to not allow to stack a kind of drop and forget skill because sieges situation but what kill skill like dissolving mist is the long CD.

also the mastery is only half aoe for the magus and it is on the dot component and not even all as show seed of chaos; this becuase every class in ror get 2/3 mastery if you wanna buff the aoe component of maguss

1-give aoe magusd/engio what was created for their aoe -->allow diss mist/ napalm to be taken in the same build as rift would be a better buff than add any skill so drop from 13pt to 9 pt.
2-these 2 skill we are rewamping should go imo on 13 pt in place of mist/napalm and such they should be aim to be a strong as a 13 pt skill. In one go you rather fix the bad decision to go aoe or take the pull and give an edge to the mid mastery.
3-is rather bad need to choose between pull (be a pull bod) and dmg (wanna be sorc), pull should cover for a fragment of sorc dmg in place of dmg you have some utility but the dmg are anyway low if you also do not have a the pull to justify the low burst magus have, engi may have more burst idk.

[Grunbag]

here a liost of greande attack that have bneen removed from AoR engineer abilities

we can get inspiration of those

Shrapnel Grenade
Action Points: 60
Range: 0-65 ft
A grenade that you throw at the ground, scattering shrapnel 30 feet around that spot for 15 seconds. Any enemies who enter the area will take damage and become snared, reducing their runspeed by 60% while they remain within the area.

Nitroglycerin Grenade
Action Points: 90
Range: 0-65 ft
A grenade attack which covers your target with explosives for 10 seconds. Any time they are hit by a melee or ranged attack, there is a 25% chance that all enemies within 20 feet of them will take damage.

Noxious Bomb
Action Points: 130
Place a bomb trap which will explode into a cloud of toxic fumes when an enemy comes near it, damaging any nearby enemies over 20 seconds. The longer they stay in the cloud, the greater the damage becomes.

Oil Grenade
Action Points: 80
Range: 0-65 ft
A grenade that you throw at the ground, covering it with oil for 15 seconds. Any enemies in the area have a chance to fall down and will also be covered in oil causing additional damage to them if they are struck by an Elemental attack.

Rust Grenade
Action Engineer
Core Ability Level 1
60 Action Points 65 ft range
Instant cast No cooldown
A grenade attack which reduces your target's armor and resistance by 25% for 10 seconds.

Pepper Bomb
25 Action Points - 65 ft range - 1s cast - 30s cooldown
You lob a grenade packed full of a noxious choking powder, dealing 150 Corporeal damage to your enemy and silencing them for 5 seconds, making them unable to use magic.

[Tifereth]

Nitroglycerin Grenade
Action Points: 90
Range: 0-65 ft
A grenade attack which covers your target with explosives for 10 seconds. Any time they are hit by a melee or ranged attack, there is a 25% chance that all enemies within 20 feet of them will take damage.

This one right here is pretty close to what OP has proposed, isn't it. Just a roided up version that triggers on everything.

[Grunbag]

Nitroglycerin Grenade
Action Points: 90
Range: 0-65 ft
A grenade attack which covers your target with explosives for 10 seconds. Any time they are hit by a melee or ranged attack, there is a 25% chance that all enemies within 20 feet of them will take damage.

This one right here is pretty close to what OP has proposed, isn't it. Just a roided up version that triggers on everything.

I agree that's what I first propose in this thread too . Nitroglycérin grenade could fit OP

[Tankbeardz]

If healers are wasting their cleanses ,stripping the several dot abilities a engie and Magus have ,then its a plus .

Except that all of your dots get cleansed at the same time a good deal of the time.