Why do people hate on melee DoK/WP so much? (opinions wanted)

[Arteker616]

the problem with dok wp isnt the class fault perse . its the fact most players wich man them in general as people pointed just chargue and die . Maybe because since they thik they can Heal they can avoid the fate of most mdps once they got focused.

And usualy most of then moan alot and refuse the idea they just screw up. alot of them are poor ly geared and doesnt bother with basics like RD 2 (in my opinion a essential tool for dok wp) or learn to detaunt or even use rend soul etc for heal their tank .

I duoded with tank with a dps dok, 6 man with em, and with proper team they can work very fine.Wp works the same but has the problem he is a ordern toon in a server filled with rdps and to many sm wanna be mdps , and is very hard to find a proper assist, guard etc outside 6 mans . the dok has it easier due to destru mele trains .

[altharion1]

I'd be willing to argue that unless you were in a mega high end, max tier skill-wise pvp/sc.... That a melee DoK can perform just as well as a healing DoK.

The only question you have to ask yourself when playing this game is:

How effective/efficient/successful do you want to be?

[peterthepan3]

Oh please, please do roll more mdps Warrior Priests. All my Destro toons could use more easy renown.

Thing is, I played DoK on live for yearss. Healmode 99% of time, but occasionally tried dpsing and it would always offer shitty results.
And it's relatively simple to understand why dps healing still does not work.

Basically you either focus 100% on dpsing, or you focus 100% on healing. Some healers like AM/shaman can do some dmg-healing, but even that is about 100% healfocus by finding soft targets that will allow BA/ITT give back greatest healreturn and thus maximizes their healing output.
Dps shaman/AM are "decent", but I would say they are diet-"sorc"/sorc-lite tier, that is, were the gifted dps shaman player to roll a sorc, they would be maybe twice as effective and far deadlier.

Same applies to dps DoK/WP, if a good player somehow "shines" on a dps DoK, they would make a godmode marauder/choppa player. Holding the player skills as a constant, we just upgrade the "arsenal" at their hands, and realize that their full potential only becomes unleashed when they play a dedicated career that actually fits the role of a mdps.

Whilst many classes are situational, dps DoK/Wp are maybe the most situation classes, that is, their niche where they can excel is the most limited. They lack charge like WE/WH do, they lack pull/fetch that mara/WL got and they lack the pure high damage that choppa/SL unleash. But in return they got their lifetaps.
Thing is, lifetaps don't kill enemies, they barely prolong the fight for your own side, maybe by few seconds, maybe longer. However lifetaps don't help you jackshit if you lack the burst to take down an enemy.

Essentially when people see a dps Dok/WP in SC roster, they think "that's like a half-mdps, half-healer" and they know they cannot expect real burst assist nor can they expect real reliable healing output from that player. Yay? The team would be better off had the scenario slot been taken by actual dps or by an actual healer, instead they get a hybrid that falls behind in both categories.
Of course there are weird and rare situations where 5 players come together and help the mdps dok/Wp shine in that specific situation, but as said, the niche where dps dok/wp can shine is extremely limited.

Now don't take my post as an "I hate all mdps healers", it's just that I've tried doing it on live time after time on my DoK, had various arguments over the years, and in the end most people end up agreeing that hybrids just do not work when compared to actual dedicated mdps or dedicated healer who specializes in one thing with full focus, instead of trying to juggle with too many things with well known end-results.

A good dps dok can easily fill in as a dps assist in any melee train. 100% AOE heal debuff and amazing sustained/pressure.

[Aurandilaz]

I'm not saying mdps DoK cannot assist or provide some supporting debuffs, but the party would still be better off if they had a real mdps with proper burst. Burst kills, and DoK is weaker when it comes to burst when compared to other mdps.

[Daknallbomb]

When its all about burst so dps shammy is better than sh?

[StormX2]

welcome back, I knew that name Convert looked familiar in TS last night ;p

Some Melee DoK's are patiently waiting for the return of the Experimental class mechanic changes that made Melee DoK much more viable.

Similar to how the .ab ex command makes Sham/AM better at Life Tapping.

[IvanP7]

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?
They aren't usually in my party so its tiny bit harder to stomp trash.
2. Have you ever played with one that actually did their role and did it well?
Yes, Trisis from my guild.
3. Is it really that big of a deal?
Yes.
4. Do you think educating them on how to play the class better so you both have fun is better - than saying play backline healer or don't play with us at all?
Of course.

[Daknallbomb]

What i want to say If you build a 6- 12 man for orvr Wy ppl think its better to have perfekt setup If u still stomp pugs and something. And you dont Find less Enemy Just because u have a dok dps with you. And a good grp premate with dps dok or shammy or wp am has 90% ein in scs. The only Thing is If you want to Fight perfekt Setups than you better build a perfekt setup too. Go every other Situation it doesent matter. And for solo or duo a heal dps is Best Pick. So that ppl habe dps healer makes no sense. The most hate comes When nö healer is in a pug sc. Well ppl have to think about that The dps healer that dont heal would be a pure dps If He isnt a dps healer. So still no heal

[anarchypark]

when battle is bigger than 2groups there are some aspects besides player skills
one of them is ratio of tank/dps/heal. number/population matter
if there are enough pure archtypes to make solid fighting force, hybrids can add flexibility.
if not, hybrid become half effective
but several hybrids working together make up pure roles( ex. 4 dps tanks are same as 2tanks 2dps IMO )

WP suffer this problem severely than DoK.
there are not enough melees for WP to rally, destro melee zerg make it worse for WP

fairy-tale tanks vs cool villain tanks, it's design flaw.
badass WP maybe Order's hope for melee population.
stop discouraging them.

[Wuhh]

1. What is your biggest problem with melee healers in SC's?
Some think they can DPS and they can't (either a gear/spec/L2P issue).

2. Have you ever played with one that actually did their role and did it well?
Yes. Often I will primarily guard a good quality DPS DoK and switch guard as needed to mdps, or even peel to our back line to help ranged heal or rdps; knowing the good quality DoK will survive for a little while without guard, then return to them.
I enjoy guarding good quality DPS DoKs, I know they will heal both of us enough to survive well, and they put out lethal damage. I can think of one name that stands out, but there are quite a few more I can't recall, so I won't mention any

3. Is it really that big of a deal?
Yes. I often get the pm 'guard me' from DPS DoK, and never from a heal one. The DoK must know what they are doing to keep the guarding/get it again.

4. Do you think educating them on how to play the class better so you both have fun is better - than saying play backline healer or don't play with us at all?
Yes. Educating your allies is always a good plan. And to know there is a time and a place for everything.
And if you get a guard - the tank is not just an extra health bank for the DoK, they need healing too. #TankLivesMatter


I tried on Live to play DoK/WP and never got the hang of it... I had a L2P issue. Looking forward to trying again with the Experimental when it returns.