Great job

[Arbich]

#HandsoffTeinhala

Looks like abuse of authority. I used to ask ambiguous questions to gm's, in this group also. And still wondering - why I am still not banned? I used to discuss ideas, addons, methods - without realisation and usage. Many people warned me, now I understand why. . . When sidelong glance of administration is enough for ban. . . No comments.

So what hack tools are you using that we should investigating? Because honestly, whatever you're implying that you didn't get banned for, probably means you didn't deserve to get banned for it in the first place. We're not monsters. The vk RoR site however hosted account/gold sellers for several months that we know of and gathered evidence for. They would happily be doing so now had we not laid out the initial demands.

In my opinion most people who keep posting about Teinhala ban are having most information only from one side. Can you maybe reveal your evidence that lead you to this ban? I mean in that ban appeal forum is just described how things were. I think simple screenshot where are you asking Tenihala in PM (or some other communication tool) to delete those account selling posts and he ignore them, or refuse to do it. Or same with other thing mentioned that group was called RoR - after they refused to help Alena become moderator, just link the post where you told Teinhala that you dont want them to be having social group about RoR, or something.

After all it doesnt matter anyway, in server rules is written that you can remove anybody from server even without needing a reason. But in this case it seems like youre willing to discuss with people not included in ban (for example this topic is still open) to persuade them from wrong opinion about this situation.

Im not trying to defend anybody. I know lot of people knows the rules precisely, but are having urgent need to balance on the edge of rules broder to try the limits. They shoudlnt be surprised if they cross that edge they could get burn.

Yes, please.

For now it looks like there were offers of account selling on this page-> you discuss this with teinhala-> he tried to moderate this page according to your rules->(something we don´t know yet happens)->you ban teinhala permanently for a (maybe bad) joke.

At the moment this whole ban-process looks like blackmail for me.

[ergreen]

Spoiler:

#HandsoffTeinhala

Looks like abuse of authority. I used to ask ambiguous questions to gm's, in this group also. And still wondering - why I am still not banned? I used to discuss ideas, addons, methods - without realisation and usage. Many people warned me, now I understand why. . . When sidelong glance of administration is enough for ban. . . No comments.

So what hack tools are you using that we should investigating? Because honestly, whatever you're implying that you didn't get banned for, probably means you didn't deserve to get banned for it in the first place. We're not monsters. The vk RoR site however hosted account/gold sellers for several months that we know of and gathered evidence for. They would happily be doing so now had we not laid out the initial demands.

In my opinion most people who keep posting about Teinhala ban are having most information only from one side. Can you maybe reveal your evidence that lead you to this ban? I mean in that ban appeal forum is just described how things were. I think simple screenshot where are you asking Tenihala in PM (or some other communication tool) to delete those account selling posts and he ignore them, or refuse to do it. Or same with other thing mentioned that group was called RoR - after they refused to help Alena become moderator, just link the post where you told Teinhala that you dont want them to be having social group about RoR, or something.

After all it doesnt matter anyway, in server rules is written that you can remove anybody from server even without needing a reason. But in this case it seems like youre willing to discuss with people not included in ban (for example this topic is still open) to persuade them from wrong opinion about this situation.

Im not trying to defend anybody. I know lot of people knows the rules precisely, but are having urgent need to balance on the edge of rules broder to try the limits. They shoudlnt be surprised if they cross that edge they could get burn.

I didn't ask, such posts disappear on themselves - and that means two explainations, ts changed his mind or moderators removed the post. History of posts is still there, it can be checked anytime. No RMT in it. People, asking for cheats usually get an answer - "you will be banned for that, dude".
I'm not trying to make gm's change their minds - but situation with Teinhala is an Incident. And a mark - not only you CAN be banned for fingersucked reason, you WILL be.

[ergreen]

At the moment this whole ban-process looks like blackmail for me.

Not only for you

[wargrimnir]

So what hack tools are you using that we should investigating? Because honestly, whatever you're implying that you didn't get banned for, probably means you didn't deserve to get banned for it in the first place. We're not monsters. The vk RoR site however hosted account/gold sellers for several months that we know of and gathered evidence for. They would happily be doing so now had we not laid out the initial demands.

In my opinion most people who keep posting about Teinhala ban are having most information only from one side. Can you maybe reveal your evidence that lead you to this ban? I mean in that ban appeal forum is just described how things were. I think simple screenshot where are you asking Tenihala in PM (or some other communication tool) to delete those account selling posts and he ignore them, or refuse to do it. Or same with other thing mentioned that group was called RoR - after they refused to help Alena become moderator, just link the post where you told Teinhala that you dont want them to be having social group about RoR, or something.

After all it doesnt matter anyway, in server rules is written that you can remove anybody from server even without needing a reason. But in this case it seems like youre willing to discuss with people not included in ban (for example this topic is still open) to persuade them from wrong opinion about this situation.

Im not trying to defend anybody. I know lot of people knows the rules precisely, but are having urgent need to balance on the edge of rules broder to try the limits. They shoudlnt be surprised if they cross that edge they could get burn.

Yes, please.

For now it looks like there were offers of account selling on this page-> you discuss this with teinhala-> he tried to moderate this page according to your rules->(something we don´t know yet happens)->you ban teinhala permanently for a (maybe bad) joke.

At the moment this whole ban-process looks like blackmail for me.

First off, the current issue is on the precipice of a permanent ban for facilitating a site where accounts and gold were openly sold for months (at least!) with no moderation. We alleviated the immediate permanent ban on the understanding that the site would change and no further issues would occur without proper moderation and respect for our rules. This is blackmail I guess, either you moderate your site (that not-coincidentally bears our name and rides on our reputation), or your several accounts are forfeit. Like with any ban at that level, once you're on the edge, you're always on the edge. If you screw up, chances are you lose your account, make sure not to screw up.

For the current ban, it really could have been anything. The escalation process once you're staring at a perm is the same for just about everything. As per our usual, we check the site occasionally go through a bunch of recent posts, make sure nothing stands out, and bam. Tima Geks casually joking that account registration will cost a new player money. Or at least, as I'm aware now it was intended as a joke. Regarding whether jokes are appropriate, you can find my post in the appeal thread as to why we take stuff like that seriously considering his position.

So again, I'm in a position where, yeah, that's something legit that we would take action on. Would it be a permanent ban on its own? No, probably not. Would it be something, well yeah. It probably would be. At very least a warning, and like anyone around here with 3 warnings sitting on their account, you don't get a 4th one. That's our flag to start banning instead. Can this be avoided again? Sure, and potentially permanently. I would much rather just stick someone (I don't really care who) there to moderate in the rare occurrences it's needed and keep any of these guys from being held accountable for the site. But this is where we're at now. Rock | hard place.

[Noergl]

I didnt wanted to get involved into this upbuilding drama, i dont have the facts, i cant read russian, im (luckily) not a dev who has to draw a line (and seemingly has to justify his decision all the time (why, by the way!))... but as everybody seemingly claims to be entitled to state his opinions here i also feel the strong urge to just state my personal obeservation about the "hateful, revengeful, biased,aso..." GM Alena:

In all my time here i only have good memories of her. Nice, helpful, happy to chat and fight with (and against) her, never encountered any kind of unjust behaviour in any way whatsoever. I 100% trust her gm decisions. I 100% enjoy playing the game with her. I dont get the strong personal animosities against her.

As i said, i dont have the facts... but this starting and growing "witch-hunt" against Alena from my point of view i find disgusting and unjustified. If i had seemingly that strong kind of issues with her, i would personally contact her and try to work things out, like two adult persons sharing the same hobby, instead of standing on the marketplace (forum) and shouting: "look over there. A witch!"
Anyone remember Monty Python? https://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g

Oh,one more thing: The "joke" argument. Try looking for the definition of the word itself... one among others is: "Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality" Gold selling and by that risking to stir up negative awareness and possible shutdown... i cant find anything amusing or trivial in that and i would take it very serious as a GM indeed!

For me it seems the staff here reached out to try to come to a mutual agreement... and runs head first into a wall of animosity and stubborneness. I applaud the loyality of the russian players to one amongst them, but at least try to sit down and work something out...

[Dresden]

I'm only seeing 'For vs Against' here and non of it is perfect.

Some random Russian needs to step up and provide themselves as a potential option C.

[stmarrow]

The entire thing seems like a shame. On the one hand Teinhala, by all accounts a good guy who's contributed a lot to the community, who fouled up by a making bad joke. A genunine impression of contriteness, I can certainly understand the support he has, and the frustration and anger the situation has created.

On the other hand Alena and Wargrimnir, strict but fair (I don't really buy into the whole Alena vendetta bit, as it seems the Russian community is always blaming one bias or another whenever an accusation is made), enforcing a no tolerance policy on account selling (regardless of humorous intent) as even a hint of monetary exchange involved with this project can risk its entire existence for all players, just not ones involved in this incident.

Seems like a no-win for everyone involved.

[Dresden]

The entire thing seems like a shame. On the one hand Teinhala, by all accounts a good guy who's contributed a lot to the community, who fouled up by a making bad joke. A genunine impression of contriteness, I can certainly understand the support he has, and the frustration and anger the situation has created.

On the other hand Alena and Wargrimnir, strict but fair (I don't really buy into the whole Alena vendetta bit, as it seems the Russian community is always blaming one bias or another whenever an accusation is made), enforcing a no tolerance policy on account selling (regardless of humorous intent) as even a hint of monetary exchange involved with this project can risk its entire existence for all players, just not ones involved in this incident.

Seems like a no-win for everyone involved.

Option C!

[peterthepan3]

I didnt wanted to get involved into this upbuilding drama, i dont have the facts, i cant read russian, im (luckily) not a dev who has to draw a line (and seemingly has to justify his decision all the time (why, by the way!))... but as everybody seemingly claims to be entitled to state his opinions here i also feel the strong urge to just state my personal obeservation about the "hateful, revengeful, biased,aso..." GM Alena:

In all my time here i only have good memories of her. Nice, helpful, happy to chat and fight with (and against) her, never encountered any kind of unjust behaviour in any way whatsoever. I 100% trust her gm decisions. I 100% enjoy playing the game with her. I dont get the strong personal animosities against her.

As i said, i dont have the facts... but this starting and growing "witch-hunt" against Alena from my point of view i find disgusting and unjustified. If i had seemingly that strong kind of issues with her, i would personally contact her and try to work things out, like two adult persons sharing the same hobby, instead of standing on the marketplace (forum) and shouting: "look over there. A witch!"
Anyone remember Monty Python? https://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g

Oh,one more thing: The "joke" argument. Try looking for the definition of the word itself... one among others is: "Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality" Gold selling and by that risking to stir up negative awareness and possible shutdown... i cant find anything amusing or trivial in that and i would take it very serious as a GM indeed!

For me it seems the staff here reached out to try to come to a mutual agreement... and runs head first into a wall of animosity and stubborneness. I applaud the loyality of the russian players to one amongst them, but at least try to sit down and work something out...

I, too, have no issue with Alena, but if enough people are crying wolf and attributing such actions to a personal vendetta - as opposed to wanting to genuinely enforce justice - then perhaps these concerns should be listened to (provided they have merit/can be empirically verified).

One person's personal experiences with person X doesn't necessarily equate to being the same experience for everyone else.

[Twyxx]

Well when he tried to post the screenshots that would suggest such seems he got a 1 day ban on the thread. I just want to see if the vendetta stuff really is true because that's what I've been seeing...