[Discussion/Feedback] The Armor Project

[roadkillrobin]

Armor vallues are pefectly fine aslong as it doesn't start exceeding the point of mitigration we have atm. The moast efficiant dps classes for small scale all deal physical dmg. And you could even make a case that their dmg is being mitigrated far less then it should. I really don't think boosting dps for those classes would be healthy for the game in any way.

The reason why healers go for Armor/Res is coz it's the only stats that effectivly do anything. Its not that armor is a uber to stack. Its that the other stats are compareble inferiour and have extremly weak effect. (except for wounds).

The renown ability system aswell as gear crit bonuses is also to kinda blame for this as stats like crit are way to cheap compared to toughness/initive in terms of effectivness. You're forced into getting the moast efficiant and cheap dps reduction stats there is due to dps getting dps for cheap.

[Collateral]

What I don't get is, why didn't you increase ws by the respective amount when you increased armour in your calculations? I'm not very surprised that dmg will fall off if you keep increasing armour while keeping ws the same. Or maybe I missed something here? On my bo I get 400+ ws buffed, and with ~350 str I don't deal huge amounts of dmg to tanks, and I'm not surprised, nor do I think I should be capable of doing more dmg.

[Luth]

What should be factored in on RoR: Here the tank M1 armor debuff (demolishing strike) stacks with regular armor debuffs and a SM/BO or chosen/knight in full beastlord gear has a 10% 1.2k armor debuff proc (corrosion) that can't be cleansed, can proc from autoattacks and AoE (proc rules didn't change afaik). The set is pretty easy to get when compared to the others and due to the stacking behaviour of the M1, even a group without a WL/marauder, can strip the armor of any non-tank completely.

Edit: i forgot to mention that the M1 debuff is also undefendable (as all morales).

[Grunbag]

Armor cap isn't 75% dmg reduction ? I read here some say it's around 4500 armor ?

[Collateral]

Last time I checked, the BL armour debuff was 990 no? Just want to be clear.

[Luth]

I read somewhere that it is 1.2, but doesn't matter much tbh.

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20205 (1260 as it seems, maybe the info is outdated)

[Aurandilaz]

Armour stacking has been the standard since... 2008?
There is a reason why classes with potent armour debuffs are the "favoured sons" of their respective realms.

In hindsight, the game has always been revolving around armour; who can get it high enough and who can do their best to kill high armoured targets? Last years of live, Slayers would be going closer towards softcaps in both Str and Ws, which then resulted in Destro countering said damage by stacking the armour up to the heavens on their DoKs; which in turn resulted in other healers becoming relatively rare, which in turn resulted in Order stacking even more Str/WS... and so on...
Current game meta is still centred around that armour maximizing and armour debuff maximizing.

But then again, if you touch current armour dynamics and all the balance related to therein, the outcome of the new balance will be a mess that no one can predict.
WIll WH/WE's start going rampage? Will Magus/Engi become the new sorcs/Bws? Will choppas chop more chop chop? Will ID start decimating Warbands as it once did? Would WL even need to armour debuff before killing the target it pounces on? Will Maras victim die from flying daggers before it ever gets properly embraced?
And the healers, if currently good healers might survive 5-10 seconds of pressure, and bad ones drop before 5 seconds are gone... you touch the armour, and your healers might just be dropping dead whenever someone sneezes at them.

It's complicated and it's messy.

[roadkillrobin]

Its not very complicated. Armor and Resistance works and you notice differance while other ones are almoast unnoticible. Its not that armor is overly effective its that all other ones are crapp. (witch the exception of wounds)

[Aurandilaz]

Its not very complicated. Armor and Resistance works and you notice differance while other ones are almoast unnoticible. Its not that armor is overly effective its that all other ones are crapp. (witch the exception of wounds)

no, the mechanic might not be too complex. But the balance that the current armour mechanics result in, and possible changes to 12 classes versus 12 other classes balance is as messy as it can get.

There is a reason why balance is often aimed at some specific ability of some specific class, so that you make minor changes at a time, otherwise the results might become too unpredictable, and the resulting balance even worse than the previous balance. Changing the entire way armour works or modifying some new values could possibly turn the entire T4 endgame into a mess with some classes becoming possibly too OP (beyond the Powerlevel of current WL/Mara) and others becoming a new laughingstock (e.g. Magus/Engi during last years of live).

[Bozzax]

Testing this would be fun

• <defensive stat>/<offensive stat>*0.25 = base defence chance (this is capped at 25%)

Current

• <defensive stat>/<offensive stat>*0.075 = base defence chance (this is capped at 25%)

Why?

• Ini, weapon skill, willpower all underperform (compared to avoidance, wounds, toughness, armor and resists)
  Off stats typically are x2 -x3 higher then the def stats and multiplying the base (0.075) with 0.5 (or less) makes it irrelevant

Spoiler:

Perhaps BG/IBs even would spend a GCD to buff willpower or even healers stacking a bit of willpower ?!? ... crazy