[Engineer] Path reworked Ideas

[Glorian]

Engi has snare on spanner, wire with tactic and magnet.

So more snare is not really useful.

But concerning the whole Grenadier tree more damage as some have suggested is the wrong direction.

Grenadier is a fluff damage dealer and the tactics in Grenadier tree boost the tree itself but not the damage output.

We have there more Range tactic, more radius of Acid and frag bomb, reduced ap costs.

More range is one of the mandatories so extra powder, the acid radius increase, is hardly taken.

Increasing the dot damage was incorporated into the bombard turret.

So if Grenadier is the fluff damage to the warband king then take it to the top and activate extra powder all times.

The tactic is broken since last November. And will most likely be repaired soon.
Thing is the normal 20 feet on acid and Frag are REAL small.



On the image you see three dark elfes.
If you hit that one on the left with a normal Acid bomb only the one in the Centre get it.

So if you are in a keep funnel you will hardly hit 9 people in that 20 feet radius. There aren't 9 tanks pushing in this small area.

So my idea to put the Grenadier to the fluff king would be to activate the Extra Powder tactic if you are using the Grenadier tree, or general on Tinkerer.

[Grunbag]

With the balance forum up again I think we could go on here before starting a proposal.

Concerning all the above points.

Don't touch keg and turret.
Both have been through a lot of discussions and are currently fine.
For the turrets I think a dev said once in Chat that they will stay like this for a long time. So don't waste your Energy there is my suggestion.

Points I would like to address first:

-Frag Grenade being not corp damage.
-Sticky Bomb is useless
-snipe back to 5secs (already a proposal up)
-turret cast on the move, or instacast activated into the engineer career.

Ok i agree about the keg , I removed the changes about it .

Now let me explain to you my thoughts about turret buff : if you up the grenadier path (actually useless) you'll have a strong aoe path . But if flame turret still gives the dodge disrupt buff what would grenadier will do : use flame turret , slot +25% range tactic to counter flame turret range debuff . That would make engi really OP (huge burst , huge def) .

That's why I thought about giving the dodge disrupt buff on the magnet . This buff activate when you use magnet and last for the next X sec . This what you need to spec in tinkerer tree to have this buff .

Bombardment turret got a tricky buff , hard to understand for the majority of the players . Replacing the dot tick interval reduce by a +5% crit would be more simple to understand . This is also something that would give choice to other path too : you want range or crit ? You want def stats of crit ?) not necessary to be a rifleman and use only gunturret or switch with the situation .(I still keep the mobile buff from bombardment turret)

Now bring back also the normal range to turret : gunturret = big range, bombardment turret mid range , flame close range . It's more logical .

With the ability I thought for grenadier spec , engineer would be really better in this path , and don't need those insane buff that only hide the weakness of the path .

I try to find myself as a engineer fan , but I always try to keep in mind how would I feel against engineer if I was playing destro .

As i wrote in my ideas I agree with you with turret cast on the move , 5sec CD for sniper , and corp dmg on drag grenade .

[Woatan]

No to any changes on Strafing Run. It has incredible utility when paired with a flame turret in RvR with the capability to punt entire warbands.

No pun, but your statement is flawed. Strafing Run has the weakest knockback distance in the game, ~25feet. It's really really laughable, moreso if entire WB's gets jinxed by it.

[Woatan]

Engi has snare on spanner, wire with tactic and magnet.

So more snare is not really useful.

I'd personally swap those snares into a usefull one.

[Grunbag]

Engi has snare on spanner, wire with tactic and magnet.

So more snare is not really useful.

I'd personally swap those snares into a usefull one.

I didn't add a new snare , I swap root ability with snare tactic and give an additional dmg effect on snare when you slot tactic .

So basically the actual root ability is becoming a snare and actual snare tactic would become
Tangling wire
Path of Tinkerer
Tactic
Passive

A bundle of barbed netting hurled at engineer feets. When it hits, the netting expands to catch anyone in the area. The resulting tangled mess disables those caught in it. Attempting to wiggle out of the netting causes damages.

Check out my tangling wire effect here https://youtu.be/NhijFbvaMj8 (for exemple at 44 sec : only difference with skaven ability is that engineer wire has no range it stand at engineer feets like actual barbel wire)

[Woatan]

This would be a usefull snare, Yes. It'd also remain as core abillity, making it non-restrictive to a specific build. Good.

[Karast]

There are some good observations in this thread,

One of the big issues with any build right now comes down to tactics and the fact that WoM is a must, just to make the clunky turret mechanic functional. You are always stuck with a poor choice when it comes to tactics since a lot of them are must slot.

Hollow Points with rifle

Throwing arm with grenade

and either extra ammo or tracer for tinker, but usually it's expert skimisher if you are doing magnets.

Just getting rid of WoM and making it core opens up a lot more options in all builds.

I know a lot of people think rifle is fine, but it is a roaming build only. It doesn't work anywhere else and it is just subpar for scenario premades. High armor mitigation shuts down the dps even if you get 750 WS, and 3 cast against melee drains and kite teams is just non functional. You can keep targets in range or los to do anything meaningful and you can't dps on the move.

We need a more mobile option to survive in this game. It's all about mobility and burst and without at least a little of that engi will always be subpar to other dps. This is really where we might need to see grenade go. The gap it needs to fill.

[Karast]

Bombardment turret got a tricky buff , hard to understand for the majority of the players . Replacing the dot tick interval reduce by a +5% crit would be more simple to understand . This is also something that would give choice to other path too : you want range or crit ? You want def stats of crit ?) not necessary to be a rifleman and use only gunturret or switch with the situation .(I still keep the mobile buff from bombardment turret)

Now bring back also the normal range to turret : gunturret = big range, bombardment turret mid range , flame close range . It's more logical .

It is not that grenade turret bonus is bad. It is very good, but junk dots are still junk dots even at 2s ticks. AB / FG / SB are all junk and even max tree with full turret stacks you are lucky to get above a 200 crit. 1 friction burn does more dps than all 3. 2s friction burns are great but that is a close up aoe build, better suited to tinker.

If these abilities in grenade were actually worthwhile, then the turret would be too. But whether you go dot stacking, or try to do a firebomb build, neither work well enough to do anything with.

If we wanna fix grenade either the dots need a massive dps boost or some of them need to be made into harder hitting ST abilities. Think of frag being made into a direct damage ability and being corp. Reliable 1s aoe you could cast on the go. That alone would do wonders.

[Grunbag]

Bombardment turret got a tricky buff , hard to understand for the majority of the players . Replacing the dot tick interval reduce by a +5% crit would be more simple to understand . This is also something that would give choice to other path too : you want range or crit ? You want def stats of crit ?) not necessary to be a rifleman and use only gunturret or switch with the situation .(I still keep the mobile buff from bombardment turret)

Now bring back also the normal range to turret : gunturret = big range, bombardment turret mid range , flame close range . It's more logical .

It is not that grenade turret bonus is bad. It is very good, but junk dots are still junk dots even at 2s ticks. AB / FG / SB are all junk and even max tree with full turret stacks you are lucky to get above a 200 crit. 1 friction burn does more dps than all 3. 2s friction burns are great but that is a close up aoe build, better suited to tinker.

If these abilities in grenade were actually worthwhile, then the turret would be too. But whether you go dot stacking, or try to do a firebomb build, neither work well enough to do anything with.

If we wanna fix grenade either the dots need a massive dps boost or some of them need to be made into harder hitting ST abilities. Think of frag being made into a direct damage ability and being corp. Reliable 1s aoe you could cast on the go. That alone would do wonders.

I agree . If you read my OP , I also ask for more direct aoe damage , with toss Bandolier and a new strafin run affect : big aoe damage that KD targets and engineer himself . It already exist ingame it was an Skaven warlock engineer ability (many similar abilities with engi) and it'll be usefull if you use it with napalm and make napalm more mandatory (actually it's too easy to get out of napalm) .

That's why tactic crit moved to grenadier to me and grenadier turret would give +5% crit. With al'l this changes , no need to keep the dmg boost that high because you'll have already more burst . Better imo

[Glorian]

I have made a proposal in the balance forum for casting turrets on the move.

Make sure to NOT POST in the proposal thread.
ONLY POST in the discussion thread if it is moved there.

@moving the Crit tactic:
Our Dps tinkerer loves the tactic where it is. So please not make Grenadier viable by removing it from Tinkerer.