Two Chosen's

[footpatrol2]

Ok so I know I differ from a lot of player's viewpoint but I would just like the community to make a observation with me.

Player's complain that the combo of two chosen's/knights/Dok's/WP/Slayer's/shamans/AM's... blah blah are a powerful combo and you need to downplay/change the class in order for other classes to fit into a 6 man. Because different tank classes need to be taken in the same group as opposed to repeat same tank classes. Because the ENTIRE GAME is fighting to get into a single 6 man and nothing exists outside of that.

The player's making those comments/arguments are actually supporting my arguments but I reach a different conclusion... being... Yes those combo's are very powerful... because this game isn't made for the classes to compete for slots... Because this games original design was based on same race groups being uniquely powerful. In addition, this game is not purely about 6v6. This game is a RvR game not a 6v6 game/arena game despite how desperately player's want it to be. You can make groups that compliment each other by stacking/overlapping outgoing effects over multiple groups.

Lets take a look at the chosen class.

Spoiler:

Currently the community thinks chosen's have a dull mechanic. Well if your only taking one chosen in your group you are correct it does have a dull mechanic because you force your chosen to only run 3 stat aura's, resists, toughness, strength and ignore the other 6 supporting aura's. You then straight up forget about their aura mechanic. In addition, RoR has made the aura mechanic static buff's that he doesn't even need to cycle through to maintain. Since player's favor hybrid spec's the three aura's that chosen's/knights can provide are not even at full value. You can't have 3 max value resists, toughness, strength's aura's up at full value. It is not possible given how the spec tree's are orientated.

If you had a 2nd chosen in the group their mechanic gets a hell of a lot more complicated. You don't want two identically spec'd chosen's due to overlap. Ideally both chosen's would heavily spec in alternating complimenting spec lines dependant if your group comp is magic based or melee based. You don't want to run repeat aura's due to the more powerful aura overwrites the weaker aura. By taking two chosen's in your group comp you are freeing up a aura slot that a single chosen would HAVE to run in a single chosen group comp. With 2 chosen's in a group you have access to 6 aura's instead of only 3. The holy 3 can still be maintained and additional 3 supporting aura's now have room to be maintained also. You can swap mid fight to different supporting aura's as is needed all while maintaining the 3 holy aura's. The class is designed to be played with itself. You could rotate as a team to the damage aura and you could rotate off the damage aura so you can conduct CC like quake. The mechanic is not dull what so ever...it is extremely complicated but you need a 2nd chosen in the group to increase its complexity. By taking two chosen's in your group comp you got a 1/3rd racial group.

This is just one example.
The game has a mountain of same race/class combo's where if you combo it with itself is very powerful. There is a TON of abilities which suggest rotating if you want the 100% upkeep on the desired effect. Such as shatter limbs/Bad Gas has a 10 sec duration but 20 sec cooldown. You take two slayer's/SH to maintain the effect for 100% upkeep. This is also done with morale's such as Sprout Carapace/(old) mountain spirit 30 sec duration. All morale's have a hard set 60 sec cooldown. Which mean's if you want 100% upkeep on the desired effect you take two chosen's/runepriests.

[Panzerkasper]

Because this games original design was based on same race groups being uniquely powerful.

Where do you take this from? Any original developer said this in an interview or is this just your interpretation?

2 Chosen sounds nice on the sketchboard, but it isnt, because only 4 of the 9 Auras are actually really usefull all the time and that are the holy 3 (tough/res/str) and the Ap aura.

The healdebuff aura is wasted, atleast on the chosen, since its an incoming and it doesnt stack with the normal mandatory 50% hd from DD classes. (Knight has the more useful version with the outgoing-hd)

The casttime increase sounds cool, but a healer under full assist gets no cast out whatsoever, so the aura becomes irrelevant. If the other healer stands so near to get affected by it, well....

The magic reflect aura is a joke, since order has only one range DD that is magic. (And no, dps AM or RPs are not threat)

The damage aura is no option for a 6v6, you said it yourself, it can break a crucial stagger. It can add some valuable damage but it can also backfire quite heavily.

The heal aura is a bit underrated imho, but even if you spec the whole path up to sprout carapace, the numbers dont grow very big, but it can crit. It's ok, but not awesome.

The one thing i give to you is the double uptime of sprout carapace, this can indeed be very strong. Its 1,3k armor and ~500res more on the whole group.

[roadkillrobin]

The DD Aura doesn't break the stagger btw. Tested 100 times.

And he's moast likley correct about racial group.
If you look at the history of both alpha, beta and live content moast points towards that groups were never intended to be mixed in the first place.

Starting zone was bound to race.
Scenario entrances pre quing was in that specific RVR zone or map.
Renown tactics that increased power level the more of one race you had.
Renown tactic bonuses based on killing players of a specific race.
And tons of internal ballance issues when mixing factions.

This is what I think happened.
Game was pushed to an earlier release by EA.
Due to not having completed Tanks for Empire and Dark Elfs aswell as mdps for Greenskins and Dwarfs they chose to merge the faction so they could mix however they wanted until those were completed. But once they were, in fear of losing players due to people allready established mixed guilds cummunities they chose to never enforce it. And this is also the reason we didn't see the other cities completed. My guess is that the pairings campain would be completly seperated from eachother until that point were a whole pairing was completly locked down and that pairngs city king been slain. Thats when you were able to support the other factions of your realm but never as mixed groups.

Its a really great concept if you have enough players to support it. Ballancing 4 classes compositions vs 4 is much easier then doing it 12v12. Its also much easier to introduce new factions as it doesn't really affect the overall internal or external ballance as the free for all syatem does. And all the mastery playstyles also becomes more viable to cover more ground.
For example one weakness Greenskins have is the lack of Magical dmg and were paired against the realm with moast armor. In that situation dps Shaman becomes super viable.

The problem with free for all compositions is that you can cover all your weaknesses and that makes other Mastery paths and even whole classes obsolete. For example if Dark Elf only have 1 tank option it's gonna be the best tank. Now its the worst as they can chose another one.

[footpatrol2]

The point is not to specifically look at 2 chosen's although that is the title, the point of the thread is that same class stacking such as tank/healer classes is intentionally strong by the games design. Your doubling down on a playstyle. Your exaggerating your strengths and not mitigating your weaknesses. You mitigate your weaknesses through smart play/positioning/working together as a team be that 6 man or 12 man/warband.

2 Dok's/WP are strong due to their cleansing nature and how tough they are.
2 knights/chosen's are strong due to their alternating aura mechanic's and high punts.
2 AM/shaman's are strong due to thier ap draining kiting.
2 zealots/runepriests are strong due to being relatively immune to setbacks, being tough, and ap feed potential.
2 SM/BO are strong due to thier stat steal which blows knight/chosen aura's mechanic away.

All of what I just listed is just surface level scratching and it gets way more indepth with further analysis.

It is not bad design that these classes are strong when taken together. It is thee Purpose of the design. 100% intentional.

[CytheX]

2sm/bo are not strong , to gain 2x stats steal u will loose aoe stag/superpunt. Think before sayng something so wrong pls.

[Rida]

It is not bad design that these classes are strong when taken together. It is thee Purpose of the design. 100% intentional.

He strikes again.

[roadkillrobin]

2sm/bo are not strong , to gain 2x stats steal u will loose aoe stag/superpunt. Think before sayng something so wrong pls.

One SM buffing/debuffing stats for damage increase self reduction. The other one debuffing Spirit resists increasing dmg. And both SM end up dealing tons of Spirit damage. Maybe you should think it trough.

Black Orcs one stealing stats and other one Boosting armor and resistance. Also think it trough.

[footpatrol2]

That group comp of 2 BO/SM is destroyed if I don't have AoE stag/superpunt?

No. That group comp is not destroyed because it lacks AoE stag/superpunt.

It's not purely about the stat steal. I stated I just scratched the surface.

[GodlessCrom]

Well the obvious answer is 6v6, Fusion vs Black Toofz. Run that double BO group versus...whomever is in Fusion besides Clown and Cythe? Let us test this experiment out...

[roadkillrobin]

6v6 is ballance cancer.
All it does is breaking classes for other formats when trying to ballance for it.