AOE and Witchbrew

[Wdova]

And for the record, the only tactic that a WH can spec into for additional damage is Fanatical Cleansing for additional 50% dam to crits.
The imbalance is still so heavy on the WE side that WH's can only be played by real good players, unlike the WE which is a player friendly class.

Vindication: When You disrubt spell, Your dmg is increased by 35%.... Well, in group play if you full dodge/disrubt renowns and tanks start using hold the line, you can proc it quite often with all those sorcs, maguses, dps shammans and Zealots around the rvr lakes. Its not ideal I know and definitely not worth on soloing against melees/tanks, bug against caster I would try that

Brute force, flanking, fanatical cleansing, vindication: 15% more dmg from sides or rear, 35% more dmg when you disrubt and 50% more dmg from crits seems fun.

WE´s mirror to vindication is Taste of blood: when You take dmg there is 25% chance your dmg will be incrased by 15% for 10s. Its much easier to proc, but dmg buff it provides is less than 50% of Vindication

I agree, that both classes should be tweaked somehow especialy for group play.

[Panzerkasper]

EW and the middle tree are the only saving grace the WH has IMO. Guranteed, it makes the class easier to play, heal debuff, armor debuff and EW tough debuff wind up doing more damage over all than BAL.
BUT... BAL is the cookie cutter spec all WH's are pushed into for some reason.

So tell my what is so great about EW? The str and Ws debuff do nothing for your damage output and a tough debuff is coverd by Tanks. BaL+Abso spam is the highest dps output a WH has access to, there is no way on earth EW can ever reach that.

[Wdova]

EW and the middle tree are the only saving grace the WH has IMO. Guranteed, it makes the class easier to play, heal debuff, armor debuff and EW tough debuff wind up doing more damage over all than BAL.
BUT... BAL is the cookie cutter spec all WH's are pushed into for some reason.

So tell my what is so great about EW? The str and Ws debuff do nothing for your damage output and a tough debuff is coverd by Tanks. BaL+Abso spam is the highest dps output a WH has access to, there is no way on earth EW can ever reach that.

Inquisition tree is more oriented for group. EW hit hard as truck and provide great stat debuff. What is more important there is also incoming heal debuff(not covered by tanks or WL) and seal of destruction 50% armor ignore for 7s buff. If You pop this and than strike with EW and BaL You can reach higher numbers than with BaL. BaL is pure dmg build excelent for soloing or assisting to dps with inc heal debuff. Its all about players playstyle.

[Panzerkasper]

EW and the middle tree are the only saving grace the WH has IMO. Guranteed, it makes the class easier to play, heal debuff, armor debuff and EW tough debuff wind up doing more damage over all than BAL.
BUT... BAL is the cookie cutter spec all WH's are pushed into for some reason.

So tell my what is so great about EW? The str and Ws debuff do nothing for your damage output and a tough debuff is coverd by Tanks. BaL+Abso spam is the highest dps output a WH has access to, there is no way on earth EW can ever reach that.

Inquisition tree is more oriented for group. EW hit hard as truck and provide great stat debuff. What is more important there is also incoming heal debuff(not covered by tanks or WL) and seal of destruction 50% armor ignore for 7s buff. If You pop this and than strike with EW and BaL You can reach higher numbers than with BaL. BaL is pure dmg build excelent for soloing or assisting to dps with inc heal debuff. Its all about players playstyle.

No it does not provide "great stat debuff", did you even read my post?

PtF and SoD can be also specced with BaL, so whats the point? BaL is a DoT, and damage wise probably the strongest in the game, ofc its a pure damage build, but that is what WE/WH are there for at the current state of the game.

[Wdova]

So tell my what is so great about EW? The str and Ws debuff do nothing for your damage output and a tough debuff is coverd by Tanks. BaL+Abso spam is the highest dps output a WH has access to, there is no way on earth EW can ever reach that.

Inquisition tree is more oriented for group. EW hit hard as truck and provide great stat debuff. What is more important there is also incoming heal debuff(not covered by tanks or WL) and seal of destruction 50% armor ignore for 7s buff. If You pop this and than strike with EW and BaL You can reach higher numbers than with BaL. BaL is pure dmg build excelent for soloing or assisting to dps with inc heal debuff. Its all about players playstyle.

No it does not provide "great stat debuff", did you even read my post?

PtF and SoD can be also specced with BaL, so whats the point? BaL is a DoT, and damage wise probably the strongest in the game, ofc its a pure damage build, but that is what WE/WH are there for at the current state of the game.

240 strenght, 240 weapon skill, 240 toughnes debuff is not great debuff? When shamman has 240 toughnes debuff for brain bursta its considered great debuff which help for bursting target down, but EW not? What did I miss here? With 240 strenght and weapon skill debuff, You shut down mele dps down by a lot of "%" and SnB or 2H tanks with low strenght make theyr dmg outpoot nearly to 0. In T3 was soloing SnB tanks, using EW on them(at lvl 39) and watching theyr dmg drop to "zero" and with strenght debuff, You parry nearly all of theyr attacks.

[Panzerkasper]

Toughness is not as a good stat as it used to be, no one besides some Tanks rely on it as a defensive stat. So no, the tough debuff is not as good as you might think.
Shutting down mdps is worth it for you to lose a ****load of damage? Ok, go on.

The problem with the Inqui tree is the same as with the Suffering tree from the WE, its only kept alive by the HD in it, other wise it offers nothing for your damage, because you main damage sources are mostly in the 3rd tree (AW/Torment and Abso/puncture).

So EW shares the same faith as does WB, its a completly overrated finisher people just spec because they are already going into the tree for the HD. Although the WH has a slight edge here since he can spec a pretty good finisher in his 3rd tree.

[Wdova]

Toughness is not as a good stat as it used to be, no one besides some Tanks rely on it as a defensive stat. So no, the tough debuff is not as good as you might think.
Shutting down mdps is worth it for you to lose a ****load of damage? Ok, go on.

The problem with the Inqui tree is the same as with the Suffering tree from the WE, its only kept alive by the HD in it, other wise it offers nothing for your damage, because you main damage sources are mostly in the 3rd tree (AW/Torment and Abso/puncture).

So EW shares the same faith as does WB, its a completly overrated finisher people just spec because they are already going into the tree for the HD. Although the WH has a slight edge here since he can spec a pretty good finisher in his 3rd tree.

I wont argue about EW and Inquisitor tree anymore, because I am not expirienced WH and my memories are from live which was quite different to RoR. I agree that WH BaL and EW finishers are much better than WE ones except OyK

[bichka]

All the above tactics actualy made sense, instead of balancing it they change into crap... Like baneful touch now "when you atack from sides or rear you gain 15 ap points" really? WEs dont need more AP, we fine with kiss of betrayal. Whoever wrote down the original skills and tactics of WE did a really good job on it.

this tactic used in PVE mostly, especially when no zealot with AP ritual in party.
also on live it was bugged and works in different way then description said, but now it's doesn't matter.