2H BO

[Acidic]

Hi
I have tried to add a suggestion that would help the BO with a 2h. Unfortunately I am not that eloquent at explaining the problem as I see them. So I thought maybe before I try again I should get a broader view from othe BO's

How I see things with 2H
Survivability is not inline with the damage done.
BO sets have block which is useless with 2H
We have a heal bellow which is of little use.

When I look at this I see a reasonable solution (reasonable to me) and that would be change the wasted block to parry which would increase surviability and work nicely with some of the tactics.
What's is your opinion of this suggestion and or the problems for 2H BO

[peterthepan3]

The BO isn't a 2h tank, though... The SM and BG are more suited to the role of 2h tank. This is evident in that THC can be used while using SNB, you have +block base tactics/+morale per block tactics, etc.

The BO is the DPS SNB tank. You do more damage than any other tank (bar SM) even when you are using a SNB. Not to mention all the goodies you can get.

If you were to buff the 2H survivability significantly, then you would have to tone down other things.

I see 2H BO as an opportunist burst DPS tank that relies heavily on a good group. You function more like a DPS. You can crit for 2.2k+ on a 2h BO.

However, I don't think it would be too big a task to improve the BO's parry via a skill. Maybe tie it to the GWM tactic, so that only 2H BOs investing heavily into the DPS tree could benefit from it/to alleviate concerns of having too many goodies in one spec?

[Nefarian78]

Hi
I have tried to add a suggestion that would help the BO with a 2h. Unfortunately I am not that eloquent at explaining the problem as I see them. So I thought maybe before I try again I should get a broader view from othe BO's

How I see things with 2H
Survivability is not inline with the damage done.
BO sets have block which is useless with 2H
We have a heal bellow which is of little use.

When I look at this I see a reasonable solution (reasonable to me) and that would be change the wasted block to parry which would increase surviability and work nicely with some of the tactics.
What's is your opinion of this suggestion and or the problems for 2H BO

Coming from a 2h BO main.

2h BO suffer from having it's only strenght as damage and damage only. We sacrifice all of our defenses coming from our shield to only gain a small increase in our damage. While it's true we can hit for even 2k it's extremely rare for it to happen, it comes from a full T'ree Hit Combo (which you can interrupt) and requires the target to have close to no armor (a Cutting Clawed AM for example)

I personally don't even know how Mythic screwed BO so hard when our mirror suffer from none of the issues we have. They deal more damage than us due to dealing spirit damage and they also have much more defenses trough Eagle's flight and Wall of Darting Steel.

About the block sets. If you're 2h you're going to use Full Dominator, or at least 4/5 pieces of it. Depends on what you're building for, but i consider domination a must. There's no point in building a defensive 2h BO, don't even try. I did and the results were really scarce. Low damage and sligltly better defenses. Better going full glass cannon at that point.

I wrote a proposal about Da Toughest, it's currently pending review. We'll have to wait for the results.

[Collateral]

I would say it actually comes down to lore. SMs are actually wielding greatswords in the lore, that's their specialty. BGs also, wielding giant halberds. Balck orcs are kind of a mix of all, although they are not able to dual wield in this game sadly. Perhaps one day they might be able to if devs decide to bring more diversity to classes and specs (it would require a lot of work of course). Or at least, give us the ability to look as if we are dual wielding

So I stand with peter here. He explained it all. There is no reason in going 2h as a BO. You basically become a dps class at that point, meaning you need a guard and healers. It is what it is. You might as well slot FO and go total ham. I did it once, it was pretty bad lul. I personally love the look of snb better than 2h anyway, just my thing.

[Nefarian78]

Well, if we go by the lore then BOs should be mainly 2handers or dual wielders. There's way more orcs than like stabbin' and smashin' stuff than BOs that prefer using a shield and holding the line. Even in TW:Warhammer BOs use 2h weapons and are killing machines, not tanks

[Collateral]

They can use all weapons, and the original devs of this game decided the main setup is snb it seems Also, black orcs are those that are actually meant to hold the line, so your point is not completely valid. They are the ones that are not supposed to break, and keep the others fighting. So having a trusty shield definitely helps you with that. Plus, you can definitely smash a lot of heads with snb

[Acidic]

Yes all well and good with lore and what other classes can do. But I created the thread with a specific purpose of discussing how viable a 2H BO is and how/if it needs help.
I followed the thread on possible bellow changes and particularly liked the parry option that was suggested in it.
I don't personally feel that the damage (even a 2k hit with a very heavy spaced skill) makes them really viable as a 2H mele. I play a snb bo but so much enjoy the 2h that I feel it should be more viable.

[ragafury]

well had the pleasure to play 2hd BO tonight with guard and heal in a 3 stack in orvr and sc, so I had the chance to recheck and reconfirm a bit of my opinion.

as everybody said. consider it dps with a bit of support via stat steal, reliable snare and 20% reduced magic dmg.

it's just a real cruel class with low gear and low rr. it just doesn't perform than. period.
your missing RR points, and skill points. Especially skill points I would say.
once that is fixed it performs okayish overall. even the parry department is ok. not tuning towards parry in gear and I still have 43,5%, can be easily raised by priotirizing parry etc. but I wrote it somewhere else, what's than the point of going 2hd, you don't even have a valid tactic like "Riposte" which would support that. just pure self defensive while than again sacrificing dmg which is needed.


also it's ofc not made for largescale RvR.
played it with 3pcs dom / 4pcs BL / 2Pcs Overlord / 3 pcs warrior genesis (d&d, str wounds stats and the parry one).
at that point it's not even that squishy anymore with guard and rotation were you build in Savin me hide.
It's an okayish flanking force build, and as long as the zone doesn't stall in a funnel or something, you can do allright.

If you join SCs without the support it basically plays like a tanky choppa with less dmgutility (missing heal inc debuff, heal outgoing debuff and so on + dying quite fast when left alone vs rdps (dmg benchmark on 2 legs) (tested that in pug sc again some weeks ago), but if needed you can always equip snb and switch tactics around.

just treat it as a fun specc you can now and than play.
for making it viable,... pffff idk where to start without breaking the class tbh.
It's not in a that bad spot, at least for sc's. not amazing, also not ubertrash (2hd). but great fun and refreshing to see 4 digit numbers again. x)

think survivability is not the issue once geared, also the debuffs / buffs are allright when you go left tree.
really hard to say what could be better.
before RR 50 it's in my opinion bad to go 2hd / you will have a much harder time. you missing points to deck out your talentspecc and you are missing renown which needs to be invested defensivly first, after that you can start thinking of getting crit or fs or something. so highly arguable overall. think since BO has no reposte tactic, changing m2 from "walking it off" to "25% dodge disrupt + can't get snared for 5 secs " could help, at least that was something I wanted back than when I had low rr. would have helped the most I think, this flexibility in that slot. aiming for tactics with buffs is not that great I think, since you have already too many good ones and need to make choices. only M2 feels meh, since nothing really supports that playstyle on point (block as 2hd lul, raze aoe in sc lul, 160 toughness meh). still highly arguable if that doesn't break anything.

and as a sidenote: yeah, you are better of in most cases with going snb. even if you want to go offensive. just slot dom + BL + subju wep or other offensive gear + tactics + block m2 for smallscale. just adds much more stability overall for yourself and your party.
2hd just shines only under right conditions. that's it.

[TenTonHammer]

At the point where you start saying stuff like "opportunist burst" that just needs a a guard + healer and all that jazz

No offense, but why even bother? Just grab a proper mdps at that point for real and greater effectiveness

If you wanna do it for shits and giggles that's fine

I always wanted to try 5 piece dom with the taunt epic weapon for maximum aggravation

[ragafury]

At the point where you start saying stuff like "opportunist burst" that just needs a a guard + healer and all that jazz

No offense, but why even bother? Just grab a proper mdps at that point for real and greater effectiveness

If you wanna do it for white and giggles that's fine

I always wanted to try 5 piece dom with the taunt epic weapon for maximum aggravation

That's basically the essence.
In most cases you will do better with a choppa / marauder / we in that slot. I personally consider it a fun spec.