Patch Notes 21/10/17

[Defacian]

This change is really awesome, thanks for all the efforts.
I'm amused people still whine and write that so called "feedback", not seem to understand that this change is "time = reward", no rng anymore, eventually you will get your bags anyways, so childish to expect free rewards.
Now efficiency and amount of time spent depends on how hard you try with guaranteed reward.
Brilliant

I don't really think what I did could be considered whining, as I stated my problem with the current system, stated why I thought it is bad, and then offered an alternative. I don't see how that could be construed as anything other than feedback.

I definitely agree that time=reward, which is the problem. I disagree with the statement that this loot system rewards effort of any kind, unless you consider simply showing up to a zone effort. I don't. As Danilpb mentioned above, the reality of this system is that it rewards players that simply show up in a zone and then half heartedly play. Regardless of how hard you try, you get your bonus to rolls of all bag types you did not win, so what's my incentive to go super hard in a zone lock if I don't have a lot of those bonuses? Like I mentioned before, yesterday I showed up as one of the first players in the zone, gained a ton of contribution, and got nothing but a white bag for my reward because I didn't have any of those bonuses stacked. The current system is incentivizing me to play lazy until my bonuses to rolls auto-win the bag for me. I really don't think a system should ever reward "time spent online" over actual effort. And again, I think incentivizing people to sit in lakes is going to hurt SC queues significantly, which you know is already a huge problem if you're a US player like me.

For reference, this is coming from a player who plays solo and then joins Pug warbands when it's time to really start fighting over objectives. I've seen a lot of people claim that the old system was dominated by 6 man roaming groups. I can safely say that simply isn't true as someone who has placed first in contribution many times without ever joining a 6 man.

Again, I like that the change circumvents the old problem of 10 bags for 200 people. However, now I feel like instead of those players getting screwed, the players that tried the hardest in zone locks are now the ones getting screwed. And the fact that little to no feedback is given on the roll window doesn't help me to gain a better informed opinion on the matter.

[Hargrim]

Again, I like that the change circumvents the old problem of 10 bags for 200 people. However, now I feel like instead of those players getting screwed, the players that tried the hardest in zone locks are now the ones getting screwed. And the fact that little to no feedback is given on the roll window doesn't help me to gain a better informed opinion on the matter.

How are you screwed if you are rewarded by your contribution? You don't need stacked bonus from previous zone to get a gold - you just need to be very good the first time you attempt that.

[AxelF]

This change is really awesome, thanks for all the efforts.
I'm amused people still whine and write that so called "feedback", not seem to understand that this change is "time = reward", no rng anymore, eventually you will get your bags anyways, so childish to expect free rewards.
Now efficiency and amount of time spent depends on how hard you try with guaranteed reward.
Brilliant

I don't really think what I did could be considered whining, as I stated my problem with the current system, stated why I thought it is bad, and then offered an alternative. I don't see how that could be construed as anything other than feedback.

I definitely agree that time=reward, which is the problem. I disagree with the statement that this loot system rewards effort of any kind, unless you consider simply showing up to a zone effort. I don't. As Danilpb mentioned above, the reality of this system is that it rewards players that simply show up in a zone and then half heartedly play. Regardless of how hard you try, you get your bonus to rolls of all bag types you did not win, so what's my incentive to go super hard in a zone lock if I don't have a lot of those bonuses? Like I mentioned before, yesterday I showed up as one of the first players in the zone, gained a ton of contribution, and got nothing but a white bag for my reward because I didn't have any of those bonuses stacked. The current system is incentivizing me to play lazy until my bonuses to rolls auto-win the bag for me. I really don't think a system should ever reward "time spent online" over actual effort. And again, I think incentivizing people to sit in lakes is going to hurt SC queues significantly, which you know is already a huge problem if you're a US player like me.

For reference, this is coming from a player who plays solo and then joins Pug warbands when it's time to really start fighting over objectives. I've seen a lot of people claim that the old system was dominated by 6 man roaming groups. I can safely say that simply isn't true as someone who has placed first in contribution many times without ever joining a 6 man.

Again, I like that the change circumvents the old problem of 10 bags for 200 people. However, now I feel like instead of those players getting screwed, the players that tried the hardest in zone locks are now the ones getting screwed. And the fact that little to no feedback is given on the roll window doesn't help me to gain a better informed opinion on the matter.

This is just simply not true, as has been stated multiple times already your personal role is affected by your contribution compared to the average contribution of all players in the zone. This means that if you show up (at whatever stage of the fight) and contribute lots - capping BOs, kills etc - you are going to have a much better chance of getting high level bags than someone who has mooched about following the zerg for a couple of hours and contributed very little.

Devs have stated that everyone has a chance to roll a gold bag, but for obvious reasons aren't giving the odds, which might be something like 0.00001% for someone who has contributed very little. Seems that you're complaining about not getting a bag having contributed lots on a sample size of 1. How many times under the old system did you place in the top 3 for contribution and then end up 78th after the roll? Rng is rng. New system is designed to reward contribution and sounds like it will do that very well, it's impossible to provide any kind of meaningful feedback after 1 day though...

[Coma]

This change is really awesome, thanks for all the efforts.
I'm amused people still whine and write that so called "feedback", not seem to understand that this change is "time = reward", no rng anymore, eventually you will get your bags anyways, so childish to expect free rewards.
Now efficiency and amount of time spent depends on how hard you try with guaranteed reward.
Brilliant

I don't really think what I did could be considered whining, as I stated my problem with the current system, stated why I thought it is bad, and then offered an alternative. I don't see how that could be construed as anything other than feedback.

I definitely agree that time=reward, which is the problem. I disagree with the statement that this loot system rewards effort of any kind, unless you consider simply showing up to a zone effort. I don't. As Danilpb mentioned above, the reality of this system is that it rewards players that simply show up in a zone and then half heartedly play. Regardless of how hard you try, you get your bonus to rolls of all bag types you did not win, so what's my incentive to go super hard in a zone lock if I don't have a lot of those bonuses? Like I mentioned before, yesterday I showed up as one of the first players in the zone, gained a ton of contribution, and got nothing but a white bag for my reward because I didn't have any of those bonuses stacked. The current system is incentivizing me to play lazy until my bonuses to rolls auto-win the bag for me. I really don't think a system should ever reward "time spent online" over actual effort. And again, I think incentivizing people to sit in lakes is going to hurt SC queues significantly, which you know is already a huge problem if you're a US player like me.

For reference, this is coming from a player who plays solo and then joins Pug warbands when it's time to really start fighting over objectives. I've seen a lot of people claim that the old system was dominated by 6 man roaming groups. I can safely say that simply isn't true as someone who has placed first in contribution many times without ever joining a 6 man.

Again, I like that the change circumvents the old problem of 10 bags for 200 people. However, now I feel like instead of those players getting screwed, the players that tried the hardest in zone locks are now the ones getting screwed. And the fact that little to no feedback is given on the roll window doesn't help me to gain a better informed opinion on the matter.

This is just simply not true, as has been stated multiple times already your personal role is affected by your contribution compared to the average contribution of all players in the zone. This means that if you show up (at whatever stage of the fight) and contribute lots - capping BOs, kills etc - you are going to have a much better chance of getting high level bags than someone who has mooched about following the zerg for a couple of hours and contributed very little.

Devs have stated that everyone has a chance to roll a gold bag, but for obvious reasons aren't giving the odds, which might be something like 0.00001% for someone who has contributed very little. Seems that you're complaining about not getting a bag having contributed lots on a sample size of 1. How many times under the old system did you place in the top 3 for contribution and then end up 78th after the roll? Rng is rng. New system is designed to reward contribution and sounds like it will do that very well, it's impossible to provide any kind of meaningful feedback after 1 day though...

100% agree...

Is the system perfect? not likely... no system is perfect and sure enough is not BORN perfect.

Is there enough data to judge the system? again... NO... the system has been up for little more than a day, the number of lock is still pretty limited (yes... number in the order of 10... 20... 30... are not sample worth making statistic over, wait for it to reach 100 or so before Dev actualy have some basis to start looking at numbers).

The system CONCEPT is good, awarding based on individual contribution compared with AVARAGE contribution, this mean that if lot of people actualy do their job getting gold is harder even for those that would normally top the charts...
This is probably the biggest change, with the bags no more limited in numbers, doing just a bit better than someone else don't give you a massive advantage on the roll; with the old system contribution generated a ranking where first get 750 point and those point quickly dropped to 50, the diffeence between 1st and 20th were pretty serious but this didn't reflect the actual difference in their contribution, the 20th could just have contributed a few less kill or a bo capture less but was awarded much less point on the roll, now the contribution is looked at individualy wich means that the 20th chance to get the gold bag is just slightly lesser than the 1st.

what this translate into?

if everyone do their job everyone have a shot at gold bag but the top performer are likely to have lesser advantage at it while the slaker only chance is to stuck enough white bag to actualy get their "stacked contribution" rise their roll enough (and it will probably take quite a while), i the avarage slack the few high contributors will actualy end up getting a better shot at gold bag... what's more if there are a few that reall do good contribution against an avarage low contribution ALLl of those GOOD PLAYER actualy do get a shot of the gold bags and not only...

[Defacian]

Again, I like that the change circumvents the old problem of 10 bags for 200 people. However, now I feel like instead of those players getting screwed, the players that tried the hardest in zone locks are now the ones getting screwed. And the fact that little to no feedback is given on the roll window doesn't help me to gain a better informed opinion on the matter.

How are you screwed if you are rewarded by your contribution? You don't need stacked bonus from previous zone to get a gold - you just need to be very good the first time you attempt that.

Well, like I stated in my previous post I did exactly that and got a white bag. Took first BO in the zone, killed a ton of players both solo and in a WB, took a ton of BOs, was on the ram for both doors, killed siege equipment, was there for the entire lord fight etc... Not only did I get a white bag, but the window that popped up showed available bags: and then just a picture of a white bag (I'm assuming this is an unintended visual indicator and that I was in fact eligible for other bags). But either way, I contributed enough that in past zone locks I typically would have received 1st place in contribution, which has never netted me worse than a green bag.

This leads me to my other point. Since I am unable to see my contribution, my roll, or what I need to roll to get a particular bag, it is possible that I'm simply drawing the wrong conclusion here. Depriving the player of relevant information to their contribution and how it leads to the acquisition of items is a poor decision in my opinion. For all I know I'm way off base and the contribution system was completely changed or I just happened to roll a 1 or something. In fact I hope this is the case and you can clear that up; I would love to be wrong about this.

Basically I would just like to know in general how important the roll bonuses are in relation to contribution so I can better form my opinion on the matter. All I have is anecdotal evidence of players saying they got purple bags with low contribution and my own small sample size of getting whites in 2 zones with high contribution (assuming the contribution formula didn't change) to go off of. Like the above poster said, I could be very wrong about this since my sample size is small.

Also, If at all possible could you clear up how much you need to contribute to the zone take to get a future bonus to bag rolls? Honestly 90% of my concern with the system lies in this bag bonus so if you legitimately need to do a lot to get it then I don't really have a problem with the system outside of the lack of feedback. I'm just concerned that the optimal way to go about loot is to half ass it for 5-6 zones and then try really hard when you have a reasonable shot of winning something. Or even worse, that you could perpetually half ass it and eventually you'd get such a large bonus that you win high quality bags without really trying. Not that you owe me any of this, but it would be nice to know so I don't have to panic

Thanks for your response, and I hope I don't come off as overly critical for no reason. I'm just a player that enjoys multiple aspects of the game, and I'm worried about how this loot change could negatively impact those aspects.

[szejoza]

@Defa

I see where your thinking comes from, but I also remember top contributors rolling below 100 and not getting anything even though they had a pretty big chance, and low-cotrib players rolling goldies, that's the way RNG works.
From what you write here the biggest problem lies in not knowing how did you do compared to the others, how big is the chance on the next lock, even what formulae is running the personal loot system. Any indicator would steady people minds but imo it could then be easily to exploit or worse - loot could be calculated (people could farm T2-T3 zones for bigger contribution and then jump into T4 zones for bags)

As Coma have stated - in theory the system looks great, but it has been around for one day, so we can't tell how it will work out in the end.
In the end a vast majority of players can't afford to stick to one zone lock for hours (real life x)), but this system provides them a chance of getting bags eventually, but after how many locks we can't know. It looks good on paper, let's give it a chance of working in practice

[Hargrim]

@Defacian

It did come out a bit that way.

If you didn't win bag and had great contribution - you rolled low. Keep playing, I guarantee there are 100s of players who never won a gold bag and you will somehow manage.

After a week or three and some adjustments from our end it will be good time to give full feedback. Also, we are logging the gains from players and will have a whole picture after some time too.

[Egoish]

I believe the roll screen is slightly bugged as the game makes the roll immediately on lock but an animation plays to build suspense, so the available bag displayed is the one you have got.

[szejoza]

I believe the roll screen is slightly bugged as the game makes the roll immediately on lock but an animation plays to build suspense, so the available bag displayed is the one you have got.

I wouldn't bet on that, I had visual of white bag yesterday and won green one. But well, it's purely cosmetic anyways

[Defacian]

@Hargrim

Thanks for the response. I hope you'll at least reconsider obscuring the contribution and roll (is this part intentional? both zone locks I was in showed my roll as a blurry number in addition to that weird Bags Available: White thing) so that players can draw more concrete conclusions and adjust their play accordingly. Not that I was ever 100% sure how contribution works, but at least I was able to see a contribution rank previously and was able to infer what was gaining me a contribution. I would hate to be a new player trying to figure out how to best gain contribution while being given no feedback.

I concede that I overreacted to a small sample size of info in addition to anecdotal evidence from others. I'll keep on taking zones and log my perceived contribution in relation to what I win so I can form a more educated opinion. And again, sorry for coming off as overly critical. I've been enjoying the game a lot since I've come back and am very thankful for all the hard work you guys are putting in.

Edit: Saw the comment above about everyone only seeing white bag available. Just a cosmetic thing then, thanks for clearing that up.