RD and CW broken?

[Penril]

We agree on that, yes. But as i mentioned before, only when facing larger numbers. Given equal numbers, you will be chasing the ranged group away to their warcamp/keep (assuming you can't catch them, which you probably will with Pounce/ranged KD/WH stealth/Heaven's Wings/Ensnare/AM puddle/RP stagger/etc and they not having RD anymore).

How many times have you fought decent ranged premades and chased them to their guards?

[Hastykrasty]

Because in some people's dictionary pressing a button and do whatever they want without major consequences = skill. This is the only explanation that i came up with, if you find a better one, please explain it to me

This is called counterplay xd And it based on prediction, and the prediction requies skill, ability knowledge and game experience about whats going to happen next. With RD you have to chose on, what to do after each gcd in combat, pop RD - or hit once more cause you see smth bad going to happen, or not going yet. RD was wisely designed, - it didnt remove snare/root itself and could be poped onse in a 5!sic minitues unless you spent a hell ton of mastery in it.

Now you have to put allof your rr points intododge/disrupt/parry stats and hope on luck. So i have to say yes, the most simple MMO ever without RD is even more easy to play.

I'm sorry but I disagree (with the second part about RD): with RD you ignore for 10 (or 15) seconds a fundamental part of the combat enviroment equation: crowd control. In those seconds you apply your rotation (or whatever ability) and you are free of positioning wherever you want, because you cannot be punished for any mistake in those seconds.

Let me make an example.

Let's pick Tor Anroc, here if you have RD you can symply ignore all the tank's knock-aways and KD, focusing your target (or heals), allowing to position where it's easyer for you to accomplish your mission in those seconds.
Without RD you have plenty options:
a- Search for Immunity: when you see a tank using it's push, control it's direction in such a way to avoid a bath in lava, like having behind you solid terrain. Usually there's always a BO that uses it's aoe knock away and I expoit it to grant me free root immunity.
b-Manage the Immunity: Again you have to chose, if the immunity is ending, you should ponder if forcing yourself on the target is worth, or maybe use Declare Anathema for a hasty retreat.
c- Choose the right target: If a potential target is on the edge of the hill, and I am without immunity, I'll avoid it and search for a better positioned target. If you can't and that's the only available target, I use stealth with my WH and if popping behind (since it's the better option for a WH/WE) is too risky because I can be pushed in the lava, I symply pop in his face, use positioning faint and KD, or Shroud of Magnus if its KB can be disrupted and so on, depending by the situation.
d- I use Buffhead to see if a tank is coming to KB or KD me. If I'm hitting an unguarded target, and I see a guard icon popping up, this means that a tank realised something, and he's likely going to his new guarded ally, so he will probably KD+KB me or one of them. By the icon, you can recognise the tank and see him coming, the first abilities that he will use are, as I said, a KD/KB/snare (challenge maybe from afar) to prevent this, instead of circling my target trying to stay behind him I pop Rephel Blasphemy and face the tank to parry his nasty "defensive rotation", but still hitting my target. So instead of searcing the back of my designed victim, I position myself in respect of the tank, in such a way to parry his countermeasures. OR I can retreat if I see that I can't finish him OR I pray for a normal parry and i push in for finishing my target, again, choices.

The same concepts can be applied more or less for the KD, searching for Mines/Demonic Infestation is a great example, since their overuse by Engi/Magus.
I made these examples thinking about my WH, but the same can be said for other classes (with the given corrections of the case). Also for groups, same rules applies.

I'm not saying that's easy, but sometimes I managed to prevent a long KB from a BG, and other times I failed since I'm human.
The tactical part of RD is like a boolean decision: pop it or not, the timing is precious I agree, but less punishing.
You still have counterplay IMHO.

In the end, I think that this change gave tanks even more importance about their CC abilities and how/when to use. Free Immunity will be more important now imho.

[Tankbeardz]

@beardZ I think they mean SLayer. Which... mdps classes benefitted the most from the avoidance on dot check imo. Previously, you’d just get loaded and then die. Unless you had CW. Now, stack more disrupt and run with a healer that cleanses.

DoTs affecting stealth... both classes have an ability for 100% disrupt, and a morale. You can disrupt those DoTs to prevent them from breaking your stealth. Run as less of a glass cannon, and you will live long enough to get more DBs.

I was just being a smartass. Choppa/Slayer have always relied on a solid group. You can solo...but don't expect great results. Last I recall, they both have sprint and flee...and everyone has access to double AP pots. JS

On the second part. The classes rely heavily on burst and surprise and they are already an under-performing class in a group setting imo, barring solo and small group ganking ofc. Once you are out of stealth your potential goes down quickly....it's like buying a new car for $50k and then it devaluing by $10k the second you drive it off the lot.

[huggmuth0305]

Can someone explain to me what RD and CW is?

[dansari]

Can someone explain to me what RD and CW is?

Resolute Defense and Cleansing Winds. Both are (were) actives you could spec into with renown points. Each rank is 10 points. Max is rank 3 in each (30 renown points).

RD1 (first rank) = 10s "immunity" to all crowd control effects with a 5min cooldown. Only affected crowd control after you used the active (proactive ability).
RD2 = 15s immunity, 5min cooldown
RD3 = 15s immunity, 2min cooldown

CW1 (first rank) = removes all curses, hexes, and ailments from you with a 5min cooldown. Did not cleanse "Damaging" abilities (things like Rune of Immolation proc or Gork Sez Stop).
CW2 = removes all curses, hexes, and ailments with a 2min cooldown.
CW3 = removes all curses, hexes, and ailments with a 2min cooldown. Each curse, hex, or ailment removed granted you X amount of health per ability removed (375hp I believe).

[Bozzax]

One small question.

So now when CC counters are removed will order keep the "order only" precision rkds (not counting mara one for obvious reasons), pounce, M2 jump+snare, M1, M3 tank morale roots and self clns on RDPs (SW morale and BW ability)? I'm asking because these are obviously more effective now when counter messures are removed.

E: I know BG self clns for example is equally good (actually better) and there are likely morale roots on dest side as well on some spec tree or archetype in a totally useless spec which means they are never used.

E2: Dwarf half duration on kds aren't **** either

[Collateral]

Sh has m2 snare afaik which will also be a lot more useful now. I can't think of much else atm

[Penril]

I would worry more about KotBS AoE snare to be honest, now that BO AoE snare is "meh".

[Spierron]

We agree on that, yes. But as i mentioned before, only when facing larger numbers. Given equal numbers, you will be chasing the ranged group away to their warcamp/keep (assuming you can't catch them, which you probably will with Pounce/ranged KD/WH stealth/Heaven's Wings/Ensnare/AM puddle/RP stagger/etc and they not having RD anymore).

How many times have you fought decent ranged premades and chased them to their guards?

And for melee destro ? i'm curious sorry.

When you open on BW or AM you just forgot to list your disrupt buff, which makes you immune to all CC they will use. Why do you put yourself in a worse position than you are?

Sorry but now we must keep our disrupt buff for use stealth

kyranria, NPNB

[Penril]

And for melee destro ? i'm curious sorry.

Mara pull (better than WL)/ranged KDs (Mara and WE)/WE stealth/Flames of Fate/Shaman puddle/Zealot stagger/git to da Choppa (ok that last one was trolling )