[Engineer] How ES changes effect the class

[timoteiz]

After the recent changes in the patch on 16/12/2017 the tactic Expert Skirmisher (ES) in my opinion is broken in a sense. This is a list of examples that again in my opinion create some issues in the game play of the engineer, especially tinker, grenade spec with close range combat.

To understand the issues in the game play, let see how it used to work. If you were to cast Turret or keg; your casting speed was reduced by 50% regardless of distance to enemy. Note only Turret and keg no offensive skills or abilities. The Turret is a damage buff and the keg a heal. As in live, the actual target was the engineer due to the above categories of the skills (buff-heal).

New changes dictate that in order to receive the speed buff of 50% you need to be 19.99 feet from and actively targeted enemy. Not just around an enemy. So, if you are attacked by a melee class while shooting a ranged class, you need to change to the melee target, cast turret and keg then switch back to the ranged one. This for starters is fairly difficult to do in the heat of combat but OK. Also, the dps from the target of interest is reduced because the auto attack will hit the melee not the ranged you were aiming for.

Notethat no other class is required to switch targets to cast heal-buff and damage skill/abilities due to the dual targeting system. This is not applied here.

In the case of concussion grenade… you knock back your target at 25 feet (more or less) and cast keg… no speed buff… while the target needs 0.5 sec to get to you and attack, with a 2 sec cast when attacked by a fast melee or focused fire from ranged ... total deployment time around 4 sec due to push back …use of keg? None. If consider that some classes can kill in 3-5 sec.
In the case of a pure AOE build... with a rotation like napalm, lighting rod, friction burn, electric discharge and blunderbuss blast… that don’t require a target … no speed buff on turret and keg deployment. Try to deploy a destroyed turret or keg… you will end up doing nothing for 8- sec due to push back for both skills (turret and keg) while under attack, unless to click a target between 0-20 feet.

Also if by mistake you have a dead target whether is 0 feet or 100 feet … no speed buff.

Also, the fact the cast bar is hard coded and the 1 sec cannot be changed doesn’t help much… because am sure that a lot of people see the cast bar and react to it… so when the cast bar hits the end and you move, as a reaction, then you miss the deployment because you need 1 more sec to finish it… kind of makes you just stand there counting rather than paying attention to the fight... just to make sure you have deployed.

This change reduces the effectiveness of an engineer in the field of battle and deprives his main function to support effectively his team mates. Don’t forget that the main use of an engineer is to support all the other classes by doing some dps, some heal and some tanking. He is not a pure dps nor tank or healer.
I don’t know if other engineers or other classes will agree with my opinion but if you do please post here and maybe the developers will consider this issue again and change It back.

No hard feelings to anyone, on any side. I know that we all doing the best we can for the betterment of this game but, I also love this game so much and I had the need to express my concerns for this issue, and hope to resolve it in a positive way.

Thank you all, I am awaiting your responses.

[Pumatouch]

To clarify, the important distinction with Expert Skirmisher is hostile and friendly targets.
The tactic does not say you should specifically get faster turret builds, BUT it doesn't say specifically either, that the speed increase only applies to damage abilities. So in RoR, at least, what Fixxer is referring to are the "Friendly Builds"; Turret, Electro Rod, Keg and a few others. These one were able to use with a Friendly target within the specified range in Expert Skirmisher, and thus get a faster buildtime. One could even have no target, thereby reverting to self (also friendly target), and thus getting faster friendly builds.
These friendly buildtimers have now been removed, is what Fixxer is trying to get across, me thinks.
As for me, I'm having doubts it was supposed to work on friendly builds in the first place. It seems to me the text of Expert Skirmisher would have been more detailed about this destinction.

Expert Skirmisher: Your cast times are reduced to 50% when you are within 20 feet of your target.

Read into it what you want.

[Glorian]

Pretty much what Arthur aka Pumatouch said. ES was a Must tactic on Tinkerer.
Getting faster Turret, keg, Rod.

Now that it needs a selected target in 20 feet it will most likely replaced by instant turret tactic as it is too situational.

Overall it is one of these fixes that is a nerf for a class that doesn't need a nerf.

[Hargrim]

I guss it can use a balance proposal .

[timoteiz]

I guss it can use a balance proposal .

The only proposal for engies on this is to switch back the way it was ... once ES is equipt in the tactic lost 50% reduction in casting for Kegs and turrets regardles of target or enemy distance.. All offensive skills and abilites remain the same with disance check etc.

Basicly when it comes to kegs and turrets target = self.

[wargrimnir]

Basically, no.

This was a bugfix. You can't skirmish with yourself. If you're not within 20' of an enemy it should not work. If you're not within 20' of an enemy, you don't need it anyway.

[timoteiz]

OK... So if am surrounded by melee and shooting a ranged at 21 feet I need to switch target Back and forth for deployment? At least an area range check of enemies. Requiring an active target seams a bit count productive in the current way of game play.

[Natherul]

OK... So if am surrounded by melee and shooting a ranged at 21 feet I need to switch target Back and forth for deployment? At least an area range check of enemies. Requiring an active target seams a bit count productive in the current way of game play.

Because that is how it's supposed to work. This ain't changing.

[timoteiz]

OK thank you....

[Forwe]

While it might be how it's supposed to work, I dare say that it makes ES completely outclassed by Well-Oiled Machine in literally every situation, then. Atleast before, you had to decide between that trait or the other, because, let's not fool ourselves, you need SOME way of reducing your turrets costs as any kind of Engi spec(will talk only from Engi perspective cause I didn't play Magus much, but I bet it's similiar).

If you wanted to to support with Lightning Rod, Keg, and get better Turrets as a Tinkerer, you picked ES, but if you wanted to just use Magnet, cause you're grenadier/tinker, you could use W-OM for better mobility. As a Rifleman, you could use W-OM to better position yourself on the outskirts with insta turrets and free Redeploy, while if you wanted to have some melee survivability, or wanted to support your group mates from melees with crackshot, you rolled with ES, to quicken the turrets a bit, but massively increase your punch in melee. Now? You'd have to either roll with both ES AND W-OM to get both reliable turrets and some melee support(which is completely unfeasible, engies have too many tactic slots used as it is), so that option is pretty much out of the question. Only rolling with W-OM remains, to have any upkeep of Improvised Upgrades, or you just roll without any of them when you camp sieges/flags. Basically removed some decision making.

Of course, I don't blame the devs, I guess it WAS a bug(and it was done mainly with intentions to fix Lileath's Arrow/SH equivalent I believe, no?), and the soonest we could expect a change/split that would benefit engies if you even want to do that would be with client control. Just wanted to put a semi-experienced engie's(and one who's so bored that doesn't mind writing essays on forums ) point of view, which I dare say is shared by atleast some other people. ^^