High Disrupt is an issue

[zumos2]

Defense stat and calculation wise you are not right. This is a deliberate change from live. (And a good one, imo)

Its a good change for anyone not playing BW, Sorc or Magus (ok or dps AM, dps Shaman, dps ZL, dps RP)

For the record playing dps shammie now and then, still overall it is a good change which opens up more specs and builds. Also to be fair who can say with a straight face that the previous implementation did not result in overperformance for magic rdps and irrelevance of def stats? It is maybe not perfect in current implementation but it is way better than the previous implementation. (Imo)

From a 6v6 perspective I now have very high doubts if we can ever run a magical ranged dps as I simply don't think it will kill any healer. That said, maybe the new calculation method is better, but the new problem then is that Deft Defender cannot currently be countered and costs very few renown points for a massive effect. I'm not necessarly advocating for removing the current system, but rather make the current system more fair.

[Nealio]

I played my sorc a little bit again yesterday and after some time I really didn't even want to target any healer anymore. The current behaviour is supposed to be the same as on live if I'm right. But I really can't remember on live getting disrupted this much on my sorc or dps shammy. And that is with almost capped intelligence.

Same. Something is definitely amiss and no one wants to admit it while claiming "working as intended."

[Ugle]

Afaik they have stated they will "look into" renown skill system at some point. Might be handled then (and totally agree, esp. Deft Defender seem to overperform in current state if you factor in the low RR cost)

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Defense stat and calculation wise you are not right. This is a deliberate change from live. (And a good one, imo)

Its a good change for anyone not playing BW, Sorc or Magus (ok or dps AM, dps Shaman, dps ZL, dps RP) And I found the changes on the wiki. I dont know exactly the old calculation behind it. But currently there is no way to gain high strikethrough to oppose the effect of the Deft Defender which has extremely sufficient renown costs.

off stats (str, int, ball skill) bypassed flat value def component of the others (wep skill, ini, willp ) with no cap

so if 1050 vs 1050 then you have 0% increase from wep skill,ini, willp....not to mention most of time you have max 600-700 in wep skill/willp while ini it sit max on 200-300.

So it basically was always 0% because all off classes in a way or into another end with 900+ in off main stat

now ther is 75% cap for all 3.

If there simply was a cap, that would mean that the disrupt rate would be equal to dodge rate (considering having significantly more intelligence than willpower and more balistic skill than initiative). Yet I didn't feel like this was the case at all.

[kitchenslave]

My original point in starting the thread was that Magic utility has been debased out of the game. You need that root or snare to stick reliably, good luck with that. If magic DPS is too high cut it in half and drastically reduce damage. Or the lazy fix, give utility based magic (ie non damaging) a 50+% strikethough.

I remember playing the Age of Conan MMO upon release. They implemented a gem system that allowed you to socket your equipment to increase damage. The most defensive class, the guardian, was able to socket himself full of DPS gems and basically become a rogue in Full plate. Rather than see the error of their ways and change this mistake in the first week, they let this go on for months and people left the game. The game failed.

Magic classes in RoR can no longer reliably use their defensive utility spells against their opponents. I assume these spells were implemented into the design of the game to compensate for the lack of armor. Maybe's time for that new Renown stat, Magic Armor, spec for 30 points of Renown, and you get 5k additional armor.

By the way I have taken Wargrimnir's advice and scrapped playing any Magic RDPS classes.

[Shalktonin]

My original point in starting the thread was that Magic utility has been debased out of the game. You need that root or snare to stick reliably, good luck with that. If magic DPS is too high cut it in half and drastically reduce damage. Or the lazy fix, give utility based magic (ie non damaging) a 50+% strikethough.

I remember playing the Age of Conan MMO upon release. They implemented a gem system that allowed you to socket your equipment to increase damage. The most defensive class, the guardian, was able to socket himself full of DPS gems and basically become a rogue in Full plate. Rather than see the error of their ways and change this mistake in the first week, they let this go on for months and people left the game. The game failed.

Magic classes in RoR can no longer reliably use their defensive utility spells against their opponents. I assume these spells were implemented into the design of the game to compensate for the lack of armor. Maybe's time for that new Renown stat, Magic Armor, spec for 30 points of Renown, and you get 5k additional armor.

By the way I have taken Wargrimnir's advice and scrapped playing any Magic RDPS classes.

Well thats why you have team mates to mitigate the potential of someone rushing you while you are flapping your arms like a bird.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

Its a good change for anyone not playing BW, Sorc or Magus (ok or dps AM, dps Shaman, dps ZL, dps RP) And I found the changes on the wiki. I dont know exactly the old calculation behind it. But currently there is no way to gain high strikethrough to oppose the effect of the Deft Defender which has extremely sufficient renown costs.

off stats (str, int, ball skill) bypassed flat value def component of the others (wep skill, ini, willp ) with no cap

so if 1050 vs 1050 then you have 0% increase from wep skill,ini, willp....not to mention most of time you have max 600-700 in wep skill/willp while ini it sit max on 200-300.

So it basically was always 0% because all off classes in a way or into another end with 900+ in off main stat

now ther is 75% cap for all 3.

If there simply was a cap, that would mean that the disrupt rate would be equal to dodge rate (considering having significantly more intelligence than willpower and more balistic skill than initiative). Yet I didn't feel like this was the case at all.

ppl have like 200-300 ini while healers have like 700 willpower

disrupt from stats is 2.5x the dodge from stats on healers, now add the fact that disruot work also on dots

[Penril]

From my own personal experience (Sorc in 6-man groups).

- RvR: You still blow up several enemies, specially if zergbusting. Not hard to be like top 5 in deathblows in a zone. I have been told that this is not the case in large scale WB vs WB though with tanks that know how to Hold the Line (however, that is a HtL issue and not a Disrupt one).
- SCs: Depends. If you fight a decent premade that has a clue, you probably won't kill them. Focus on the pugs and you have a chance.
- 6v6: Disrupt Disrupt Disrupt Disrupt Oh look that one worked! Cleansed (f%$··$%·"%&$%$%) Disrupt Disrupt hold on let me swap to my BG...

It is up to the leads to decide which one they want to balance things around.

[peterthepan3]

Balancing around farming bad players in RvR (very easy to top kills as a sorc/magus, even with the disrupt changes) will not really alleviate any of the issues whatsoever. Disrupt changes are only really felt against, as Penril said, competent players/groups.

Magus, for example, is akin to godmode against pugs in RvR, and it is incredibly easy to top kills in zone. However, in 6v6 against a good order group, or against decent healers in general? Not so easy (hence why I made the Withered Soul proposal).

[Coma]

From my own personal experience (Sorc in 6-man groups).

- RvR: You still blow up several enemies, specially if zergbusting. Not hard to be like top 5 in deathblows in a zone. I have been told that this is not the case in large scale WB vs WB though with tanks that know how to Hold the Line (however, that is a HtL issue and not a Disrupt one).
- SCs: Depends. If you fight a decent premade that has a clue, you probably won't kill them. Focus on the pugs and you have a chance.
- 6v6: Disrupt Disrupt Disrupt Disrupt Oh look that one worked! Cleansed (f%$··$%·"%&$%$%) Disrupt Disrupt hold on let me swap to my BG...

It is up to the leads to decide which one they want to balance things around.

my experience on a fresh r40 AM (still under 40RR)...
-RvR keep siege; Damn I'm surrounded by 4 firestorm... oh wait I'm not taking much damage... wait the KoTB Ap Regen on defense is not so bad if it is active 24/7... let me just stay here, I don't even get that many setback...
-SC; what is that magus/sorc tring to do? stopping me from capping the banner? well I'm still managing to do it between shield and dirupt...
-small scale (not really a fun of small scale... especially on this low rank character... but It happen from time to time while roaming with a few friends...); Damn that mara tring to pull me in... Disrupt, Watch out for the sorc she tring to land a combo... disrupt, hit , disrupt, disrupt


sereiously... i feel for all the caster out there ^^' (but still enjoy my somewhat immortality in the face of the avarage Destro caster)