Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

[Roaring]

Do BW not get an undefendable fireball proc off of a disrupt? I believe they do, and that is enough imo. I think it would be too risky to mess with the mechanic of healers having a naturally high disrupt chance thanks to their willpower stat, it would be alot easier to just give the other magic dps classes each an undefendable attack procced off of a disrupt once every xx seconds.

It will allow for more of a spike of damage then a lull, which should be enough to make a difference in my opinion, but not so much that a healer becomes tofu each mediocre fight against magic dps.

Hope this helps.

[Aurandilaz]

Id beleive this if hadnt seen good bright wizards one shotting(not literally ofc) enemy dpses with the right PUNT to his tank.A good bw or a sorc will always melt target dps with heal debuff and another dps assisting. Actually everything we argue is situational ,in what condition,against which classes and where? BW,SORC dps is not unreliable haha man come on against good sorcs or bw 1 simple mistake you die as a dps.They really dont have to target healers...(again situational)

Yes because DPS most often don't have insane Disrupt values the same way deftard tanks or fully defensive healers have.
Assuming the enemies are COMPETENT, they have 2 tanks ready to guard switch at moments notice, CC enemies, event do Taunt cast interrupts, Challenge rotations (yes, that exists too).
Against high Disrupt targets, magical casters of all types are utterly unreliable regarding their performance as a "damage dealer", that simply just fails to deal serious reliable damage under current system against 2 enemy archtypes (good healers+good tanks).

You win fights by killing enemy healers. If you just keep focusing enemy dps players, the fight drags on and eventually the enemy does in fact focus your healers. Decimating enemy heal lines is the key to winning almost every fight, otherwise rezzes happen and the fight continues.

It is a real balance issue when you have 7 possible magical DPS classes in game and just how many of them are fit into current "meta" when it comes to forming a party - AND providing reliable performance against good enemy meleetrains? Sure, you can build a pugfarming machine with double BWs but that's still just pugfarming, you can farm on any DPS combination man.


On my Sorc and BW (rr75 rr60) I have zero issues roflstomping pugs, lowbies and soloers left and right. But facing organized opposition? I'd rate some of my spells 9/9 disrupt when you try to do something against a real enemy warband formation.

[Penril]

Do BW not get an undefendable fireball proc off of a disrupt? I believe they do, and that is enough imo. I think it would be too risky to mess with the mechanic of healers having a naturally high disrupt chance thanks to their willpower stat, it would be alot easier to just give the other magic dps classes each an undefendable attack procced off of a disrupt once every xx seconds.

It will allow for more of a spike of damage then a lull, which should be enough to make a difference in my opinion, but not so much that a healer becomes tofu each mediocre fight against magic dps.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, we are not too happy about undefendable/instant fireballs to be honest. I doubt we will be giving something similar to other casters.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

The Flashfire Fireball thing was pretty meh before disrupt on dot was changed. (Was good for firey blast AoE spec) Now its just absurdly busted. Flamebreath/Ignite something and proc will happen consistantly. Maybe remove Fireball from the casttime reduction for this tactic?

That is for a different discussion.

[Roaring]

Do BW not get an undefendable fireball proc off of a disrupt? I believe they do, and that is enough imo. I think it would be too risky to mess with the mechanic of healers having a naturally high disrupt chance thanks to their willpower stat, it would be alot easier to just give the other magic dps classes each an undefendable attack procced off of a disrupt once every xx seconds.

It will allow for more of a spike of damage then a lull, which should be enough to make a difference in my opinion, but not so much that a healer becomes tofu each mediocre fight against magic dps.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, we are not too happy about undefendable/instant fireballs to be honest. I doubt we will be giving something similar to other casters.

Gotcha, well I hope you guys brainstorm something that works .

[covenn]

I agree. The main cause to stuck disrupt is the enormous dmg of casters period. Making it more balance and lowering the dirsupt chanse is the key. As a healer i am running around 46-48 disrupt chanse. When in warband enviroment with 3x Hold the lines i reach 100. I am stacking armour or wounds or tougness but never willpower. so i am running around 700 Willpower with pots. My heal crit is what ever i get from items around 10% and all the rest of renown point go for defense. Why? Because if i am dead i can't heal. And because of the meta i am forced to go full defence in order to survive.

I don't bother stacking disrupt on my RP period. I can mitigate that vast majority of caster dps simply with positioning and range. If someone happens to get close enough to hit me a few times before i re-position, then the disrupt rate my WP provides is more than enough to easily heal through it.

I think a caster should be able to pressure me a little more than they currently do when they actually happen to be in range to cast on me. If I screw up with my positioning, I should feel the heat rather than just ignoring them and throwing a self hot on.... and maybe detaunt if more than 1 in range.

[Telen]

The idea behind adding the different avoidance/strikethrough traits to certain stats from wars suggestion is interesting if you look at the old renown advancements. They were more stat based and the percentage based increases, which due to the nature of scale are just better choices, were limited to once you had spent 40 renown points in the stats levels. The second levels even had 2 stats which were aimed at hybrid classes like the dok and sw.

This limited how much large percentile avoidance/crit/reduction you could take which are what is the go to choices now. Maybe it is better to go back to stat specs instead of just large percentile speccing. It also had dodge and disrupt as separate specs and block was equally cheap making snb tanks the real tanks.

[Tesq]

@gerv you first talk about how the problem is linked to willpower but you then suggest a general buff to striketrough which would hit all classes rather than just heales;

appart this contraddiction, and apaprt enormous formula , look.... my dok have like 25% chance to disrupt only from willpower 75% of this is going to be ignore by 1050 int from the enemy,

THERE IS NOT ATM ANY STATS which lower the enemy bypass so is going full 75%

25:100x 75=18.75

25:18x75=6.25

6.25% disrupt is what stats fix patch added to healers disrupt...... and so a question arise, had a 6% disrupt more really broken the healers that much? I dont think so. The problem lie else where there are 2 diff settings in war, one original and another one of a bandaid game from later devs in live.

originally healers suppose to counter magic casters easier while being weak over against melee, look why am/sh/runy/zeal have a resistence buff, why willpwoer counter directly magic caster....

the problem we have right now is that rdps in general

-cant win vs melee in small scale because they cant pressure melee enough
-cant win vs healer because disrupt/resistence high stack

rdps are not good vs both melee and hesalers and here lie the problem;

melee should have a better advanatge vs healers
rpds should have a better advantage vs melee
tank should be tank.

These are core problems of the game which we have since live. None of these 3 criterias is respected, and most of times classes like squig/sw/engi/magus have hybrid builds options(tanky or more frontliners) which make harder fit into a fix category these classes.

The reason why this is happenign may be verious tank doing too many assit on melee (probable), melee doing st too many dmg, (probable), healers like runy/zeal being very tanky (while they should not). abbundace of snare in game which make better melee (due have a core immunity) and so on


another problem may also be hold the line implementation,

HOLD THE LINE:

base
-buf 45% stack to yourself
-buff max 1 stack to any behind you (15%)

problematic part:
1-"your" hold the line buff count as 1x stack so if im htl and 2 tank in front of me are hold the line i recive 45 from my htl then plus i re ceive 15+15 from those 2 tanks.... so this is 65% hold the line from all the other tanks exept the first 2 in front of the wb. This for me is wrong and is a incorrect implemantation from live tough i have no proof but imo in live hold the line from yourself coulnt get stack your personal htl was alredy count as having 3 stacks( at elast this is what paperdoll tell i never had a chance to test it for good maybe someone can enlight me on this ).

2-there is no difference between rvr and sc hold the line
while tank should always benefith from the 45% of htl maybe it should be required more tanks to buff the other for the 45%, if you think about it 45% is a lot of avoidance and you just need 3 tanks in a whole wb to provide that; cheap.....way too cheap...

this mean that hold the line power in small scale would be reduced (on not tank classes) and hold the line in oRvR would requrie more tanks (which it have) for been as it work currently.

[Bozzax]

This is such a complex issue

1. Mdps need the current renown avoidance
2. Realms are wierdly imbalanced when it comes to strikethrough (kniggit aoe debuff, sorc on disrupt instas, am tactics, wp disrupt tac (more attractive compared to mrd), slayer ramp etc)
3. Hybrids are even more farked with low stats
4. In group play reliable clns pretty much scree casters over by itself
5. Burst sequences are more vuln to avoidance then spam dd

So what to do?

My .2$ start by lowering HtL effect to -5% (currently to effective)
Give shmy puddle an aoe disrupt debuff (-10%) to balance knights SI
Change manic obsession to strikethrough
Magus WS, remove CD and bump it to -15% or -10%

E: The thing with disrupt being so damaging to rotation casters is that even loosing -5% means a lot when you need to get success on a chain of abilities

@10% avoidance three success is about 73%. Even a small inc to 15% drops this to 61% and @20% it drops close to 50% :/

[Nameless]

I like the idea of hardcaps for all stats but leaving skills bonuses add above that level. So u got hardcap by stacking pure stats and additional buffs from skills.
Also from my pov devs should chose disrupt rule for dots to be:
1. Only on apllication
2. Only on damage ticks
But not both of them, it makes dot based stuff even more lackluster