About RVR Morales and Class Balance

[Rhungk]

There is a subject that bothers me a lot since a while and is the subject of the differences between the two factions. Of course each class / race is unique and they have to have their singularities, the issue is when this starts to break the game:

And I do not mean what would happen if an archmage had the "RUN AWAY!" of the shaman, or the slayer the "Git Stuck In" of the choppa, or if the choppa had the "Rampage" of the slayer. I'm talking about the profit difference of morals.

1º-Shaman: "Get Movin' ": +150 moral when an ally hit an enemy with " ´Ere We Go", with 10s of cd. (I think it stacks with " ´Ere We Go Again": ´Ere We Go, will affect your allies 2 next attacks, appreciate if someone can confirm it) vs AM "Bolstering Boon": Boon of Hysh will now also grant the target 250 points morale. ( Being "Boon of Hysh" a healing skill of 2s cast and no cd). The point here is that you need an AM dedicated especially to improve morale, one by one, every 2s, while in the other hand, we have an area, with cd, which allows you to dedicate yourself to other things, such as healing, which is its main function (and ignoring the theme of the other tactic).


2º-Chosen/BO: "Destined for Victory": 200 morale points every time you block, cant be triggered more than once every 3s/ "Youz see me blok´dat?": Whenever your block gain 4 percentage points worth of morale, cant be triggered more than once every 3s. vs Absolutely nothing, I have been looking carefully at the builder in case something escaped me but not. (I take this opportunity to point out the great difference between the knockback of the BG and the IB, being the IB in theory the mirror class, and surpassing the rest of tanks in the knockback, I'm not suggesting that the IB has the same mechanics, put it the same as the IB, It is a unique and clear disadvantage, for both, "Exile" of BG need 60 of hate to be a decent knockback, and specifically those two tanks are not the ones to make a knockback in early)


3º-SH: "Strenght in Numbas": Every time one of your groupmates in 100 feet of you hits an enemy, there is a 25% chance that you will regain 100 points of morale over 3s, this effect will not be trigger more than once every 3 s. And knowing that tree morals scale with mastery points spent on it, a moral like "Loots of Shootin" of 1600 base dmg, can deal at a max of 2400 ( Also that a SH without the tactic of "All by Meself" can equalize a SW its ridiculous).


Now, Add all this, what do you get? Exactly, when an order is getting closely to Moral 1, a regular Destro tank already has Moral 2: Raze, add a Shaman to the WB, or 2, or maybe 20, and also SH. As we all know, moral dmg, cannot be mitigated, parried, blocked or whatever. Raze:900 dmg, SH: 2400 (it depends of the moral, but lets be dramatic),+ whatever you want, with all of that, in 4s can wipe an Order WB.

And if you do not believe it, I invite you to play in the EU afternoon, so you can meet TUP, Ocara, or Black Toof Clan. But do not worry, after that, in NA time it also happens. But according to some ppl, there are no exploits.



Have a Zerged Day.

[Foltestik]

sameone died in RVR

[Collateral]

Wipe order wb in 4s, pls nerf destro.

[Scrilian]

inb4: "Order has the best moral pump"

[Rhungk]

Wipe order wb in 4s, pls nerf destro.

Oh i see you are upset cause i didnt add phalanx to the list, but you know, one only has 9k of hp, cant take so many morals at the same time of so many ppl, try something other than, stay at the front with "Cant hit me" or "Hold the line", to gain morale. Because maybe, the solution is that the order charges the moral at the same speed, and it is played on time to see who charges it before.

[Collateral]

What list? And I really don't understand what you're talking about.

Anyway, dealing with morales is not hard, especially raze bombs. Use a punt or stagger and gg, how hard is that for people to understand? If pugs continually want to give out free immunities, then cry about 'op destro morales', it's their fault. Also, I don't see people using sh m4 really, maybe once in a blue moon someone thinks of it, or when rocks goes to troll the lake with gobbo wb (and btw, bw has the exact same m4, and morale pump also ). If you don't know how to deal with it, it will be painful, but that doesn't mean you can't counter it.

[Rhungk]

What list? And I really don't understand what you're talking about.

Anyway, dealing with morales is not hard, especially raze bombs. Use a punt or stagger and gg, how hard is that for people to understand? If pugs continually want to give out free immunities, then cry about 'op destro morales', it's their fault. Also, I don't see people using sh m4 really, maybe once in a blue moon someone thinks of it, or when rocks goes to troll the lake with gobbo wb (and btw, bw has the exact same m4, and morale pump also ). If you don't know how to deal with it, it will be painful, but that doesn't mean you can't counter it.

Ofc you can counter it, but you really believe that there will be the same numbers of tanks, 1vs1 to punt every one? Hmm, in the case that we could make a WB like that, coordinated, specifically to be the anti moral bomb, thats pretty boring, i mean, i have better things to do that stick with destro tanks until the zone locks. If the problem was the dmg, maybe ill not be here, the problem, is that you get there much earlier, and so many morals at the same time, cant be healed. I see that you make examples of order morales, but if you take your time, and do some math with what i posted, then maybe we can understand each other. And about the gobbo morales, i dont know where have you been, cause all this week i have seen the gobbo wb doing it.

[Glorian]

Rhungk has a pretty good assumption of moral pumps. And I thought about writing a simmiliar one. Because this is not about a single class and ability but rvr in general. But as someone mentioned you might add the missing Ones to have a complete picture.

Also shaman and AM moral pump compared the shaman version is a lot easier to pull off. But be it that we say AM and SH are equal. Then BO and chosen have no counterpart on Order.

Plus the Marauder Moral drain, plus the Zealot endless mini knockbacks without immunity to destroy the m2 raze drop of an order warband.

EU RvR is about moral bombing. And it is most of the time not fun if one side has their morals not double as fast if they are in moral gear but ten times at fast.

@vs raze bomb: raze is 65 feet whereas most staggers/punts are 40 feet.

[Foomy44]

Shaman: "Get Movin' ": +150 moral when an ally hit an enemy with " ´Ere We Go", with 10s of cd. (I think it stacks with " ´Ere We Go Again": ´Ere We Go, will affect your allies 2 next attacks, appreciate if someone can confirm it)

Yes that's how it works. If I use Ere We Go and just cast nukes I hit my M1 on my 3rd attack.

The 2400 you quoted for SH morale is for their M4 , and FTR it's getting removed once client control comes in according to the stabbity tree rework.

[Glorian]

As this discussion might turn very fast into an destro vs Order discussion. We need some footwork in front.

A List of EVERY moral pump/drain in the current game.