How much Toughness on a PuG Slayer?

[CountTalabecland]

More or less running a slayer in sub-optimal class balance wbs with who knows how many tanks, how much toughness should I aim for with the usual deep wounds/shatter limbs aoe build? Just got to T4, hitting 400 with a pot. Not sure where the number lie when one gets to 40 and with anni/merc, should it be in the mid 500s?

p.s. I am pretty sure I know where the other defense stats should be but I am new to the mdps game and I don't really have a good estimate for how much tough one needs.

[Tesq]

ignore toughness, Go full parry+dual wield (40%+ parry rank 31 and above) rest in dodge / disrupt and crit reduction for def stats, rest is all off statssuch crit, str, wep skill

[Darosh]

Avoidance >= initiative >= wounds >= (resis) , else ~ especially if you pug; glass is reserved for midgets with groups.

Winds impervious/dominator (4pc)/seal gear (avoidance proc)/2pc redeye (cloak, boots)/yadayada.

[CountTalabecland]

Ok thanks for the advice. So do I even bother with Toughness self-buff or just take it out of the action bar? Or is it worth it to keep it and at least bring the super low amount of toughness up a little bit?

[Darosh]

Ok thanks for the advice. So do I even bother with Toughness self-buff or just take it out of the action bar? Or is it worth it to keep it and at least bring the super low amount of toughness up a little bit?

The buff is a waste of a GCD ~ even if the range would be >20ft, imo. You generally have better things to do (e.g.: dropping rage, legging it, position yourself, pop pots, what have you), the only scenario in which you could see 'good' returns is in organized ORvR during ramp up time or in slow engagements... even then you are better off just applying pressure.

The mitigation gained through toughness is negligible given debuffs, access to it (investment/trade-off wise) and given your class mechanic. Toughness returns pick up at 500+, provided your base mitigation (armor/resis) is up to notch ~ which won't be the case most of the time (e.g.: debuffs, bad group composition, lack of gear, ...).
Mind you, toughness can be fancy against dots/cast, iirc, given stat coefficients... but you don't want to rely on it, rather have a pocket-IB to babysit you through Sorc/Magus rotations and HtL-rave around you.

Wounds/Initiative will give you better returns, if you are looking for a defensive talisman loadout.

Try to build a little arsenal of gear; e.g.: Tome accessories (avoidance, resis), RvR accessories, conq/dom - maybe have 1-2 sets of anni/merc and ruin with diffrent talisman loadouts, to mix-match on the fly to adapt to encounters.

Learn the names of good players, learn the toolkits of the various classes, if need be parse your combat log for clues (pick up enemy/TTL [<< excellent addon made by Sullemunk]) and find a group.

TLDR: Toughness is a complementary stat that is useless on its own, and is often rendered useless by various other factors as hinted at above. You should focus on 'standalone'-ish stats, if you wanna tangibly push your sustain.

[Toadwart]

Parry build is only good vs melee, only from the frontal cone and has no value when knocked down.

Toughness, doesnt do much of anything on classes with low armor or low resists.

Initiative, imo, is the best defense tool slayer has available. It works vs all three damage types, works when knocked down or airborn and isnt diminished when you go berserk.

Slayer getting crit while in the red already taking minimum 2x damage to 225%/250% or more damage depending on class. High initiative + fultile strike can cut that down to 100% damage.

Initiative also raises dodge, slayers are highly susceptible to kiting ,,sisde benefit of dodge is good. Also raises stealth detection, witch elves are plentiful..

Long story short, no matter what defense you choose, you will die alot...because nothing you do can prevent it., particularly in a pug environment.

Defense on a slayer is basically a waste of time. Unless you want to post video footage of you 1v1 vs a melee class.

[CountTalabecland]

Parry build is only good vs melee, only from the frontal cone and has no value when knocked down.

Toughness, doesnt do much of anything on classes with low armor or low resists.

Initiative, imo, is the best defense tool slayer has available. It works vs all three damage types, works when knocked down or airborn and isnt diminished when you go berserk.

Slayer getting crit while in the red already taking minimum 2x damage to 225%/250% or more damage depending on class. High initiative + fultile strike can cut that down to 100% damage.

Initiative also raises dodge, slayers are highly susceptible to kiting ,,sisde benefit of dodge is good. Also raises stealth detection, witch elves are plentiful..

Long story short, no matter what defense you choose, you will die alot...because nothing you do can prevent it., particularly in a pug environment.

Defense on a slayer is basically a waste of time. Unless you want to post video footage of you 1v1 vs a melee class.

Thanks for the advice, and no the world is not ready for my stank gameplay lol. What is high initiative, my only T4 melee experience is as an IB so I am used to 250 + oathbound buff (+70)? above 300?

[Toadwart]

Without spending too much time looking up what im pulling this from,as im in game atm, this link https://warhammer.gaiscioch.com/lore/en ... ities.html says 350 init will take you to 0% chance to be crit from base of 15%. (numbers are from live I imagine). That doesnt include futile strikes renoun, which can take the chance lower.

Some classes can debuff initiative, witch elf, squig, shadow warrior are a few. Highest debuff atm is shadow warrior at 180 initiative.

if you have 350 init minus 180 from debuff you still have 170 initiative. Which is good, but also not 0% chance to be crit.

Once you get below 100ish initiative like 80 or 70, you chance to be crit goes upwards of 40-60%. Add that to 50% less armor and resist in berzerk mode and you are in real trouble.