If I heal someone outside my group

[darude83]

alright, lets clear some things up:

1. Yes healers that heals someone out of party does not get rewarded for the kill more then that you get contribution for the zone, we want to encourage healers to group up, not go solo.

2. Tanks have it just as bad.

3. Solo in SC actually gets punished from code for the same reasons.

Do we have a perfect system? No dont be silly, but I dont see it as any better if healers all of a sudden got rewards (more then contribution) for heals as it would only promote healing outside of party and making sure healers got more renown and quest completion then anyone else.

This is a very shortsighted viewpoint, actually it's kinda hard to fathom the logic. The "Tanks have it just as bad" argument is lazy at best. You should actually encourage out of group healing, and guard should be applyable to anyone, not just grp members. It would make random encounters much more fun and dynamic. Let the tanks and healers do what they should do, no matter if they are grouped or solo.

[Natherul]

alright, lets clear some things up:

1. Yes healers that heals someone out of party does not get rewarded for the kill more then that you get contribution for the zone, we want to encourage healers to group up, not go solo.

2. Tanks have it just as bad.

3. Solo in SC actually gets punished from code for the same reasons.

Do we have a perfect system? No dont be silly, but I dont see it as any better if healers all of a sudden got rewards (more then contribution) for heals as it would only promote healing outside of party and making sure healers got more renown and quest completion then anyone else.

This is a very shortsighted viewpoint, actually it's kinda hard to fathom the logic. The "Tanks have it just as bad" argument is lazy at best. You should actually encourage out of group healing, and guard should be applyable to anyone, not just grp members. It would make random encounters much more fun and dynamic. Let the tanks and healers do what they should do, no matter if they are grouped or solo.

The tank point is only there as Im tired of just seeing healers complain about this where tanks have it just as bad, generally topics like this pop up and make it sound like healers are the worst option.

But no, healing or guarding/htl should not give you credit towards kill when applied to out of group players, that would only shift the issue and overall make healers and/or tanks able to finish quests way faster than any dps. Again not saying its a perfect system but adding kill credit to healers and tanks in this manner (especially with how easy it is for a healer to heal anyone, see Siodings point) would only make things worse and to a point where quest rewards would probably have to be nerfed.

Healers and tanks already have the possibility to totally turn a tide of a battle with their group utility giving everyone more rewards overall and now there is a catch up mechanic for tanks and healers in contribution.

[darude83]

alright, lets clear some things up:

1. Yes healers that heals someone out of party does not get rewarded for the kill more then that you get contribution for the zone, we want to encourage healers to group up, not go solo.

2. Tanks have it just as bad.

3. Solo in SC actually gets punished from code for the same reasons.

Do we have a perfect system? No dont be silly, but I dont see it as any better if healers all of a sudden got rewards (more then contribution) for heals as it would only promote healing outside of party and making sure healers got more renown and quest completion then anyone else.

This is a very shortsighted viewpoint, actually it's kinda hard to fathom the logic. The "Tanks have it just as bad" argument is lazy at best. You should actually encourage out of group healing, and guard should be applyable to anyone, not just grp members. It would make random encounters much more fun and dynamic. Let the tanks and healers do what they should do, no matter if they are grouped or solo.

The tank point is only there as Im tired of just seeing healers complain about this where tanks have it just as bad, generally topics like this pop up and make it sound like healers are the worst option.

But no, healing or guarding/htl should not give you credit towards kill when applied to out of group players, that would only shift the issue and overall make healers and/or tanks able to finish quests way faster than any dps. Again not saying its a perfect system but adding kill credit to healers and tanks in this manner (especially with how easy it is for a healer to heal anyone, see Siodings point) would only make things worse and to a point where quest rewards would probably have to be nerfed.

Healers and tanks already have the possibility to totally turn a tide of a battle with their group utility giving everyone more rewards overall and now there is a catch up mechanic for tanks and healers in contribution.

Sorry but who cares about completing some quests? People play this game to have fun fighting each other. They want to participate in battles the best they can according to their role. Damage dealers can assist and help on anything they want, it even says so in the combat log "...for assisting...". A healer can help maybe exactly this mentioned damage dealer but shouldn't, because you encourage people to play in grp? A tank can do nothing but cc, aoe taunt and some fluff dmg, but should be able to use his most important ability, guard, and get rewarded accordingly, just like the healers.

I think i'm getting a sense now where the zerginess of the game, and the aversion to small scale is coming from.

Go play T1 and look how the game is played there. People are having fun, everyone is healing everyone, many don't care about being in grp, the thing is dynamic.

To discourage healers from healing players not in their group is toxic, and doesn't make any sense. It does not improve the enjoyment of the game for anyone, and it is truly sad that you even think like this.

[Hargrim]

You are not discouraged to heal out of party, you are just not rewarded for it in a way you would like.

Those are two very different things.

[Wretch]

I think the system is working pretty decent as is at mo . Last night I was in black crag for around 4 hours got a huge amount of renown ( more than usual ) didn’t win a bag but can’t complain as I’ve won a lot recently . Playing as snb tank I try my best to guard / oathfriend my group htl etc all the tanky stuff . If I see a guy in trouble and I’m in a position to help I will because it’s for the greater good of the side you playing on . You benefit from helping them regardless of getting contribution as every small bit You do could help push towards victory in the end . Am I going to stop being a tank just cus I don’t get the contribution for certain things I might do ? No that’s only dmg your overall chances imho . So why should healers think any different ?

[darude83]

You are not discouraged to heal out of party, you are just not rewarded for it in a way you would like.

Those are two very different things.

You mean in a way that a healer would deserve, for assisting and contributing to kills/victories. I get that you don't want to stab anyone in the back, but this is obviously wrong. I have heard zero valid arguments so far, the finishing rvr quests faster is especially weak, since you just need to touch opponents with any damaging aoe ability.

I have to conclude that the sole motivation behind this is to get healers to group up, and this is shortsighted. It is always a bad idea to tell players how to play the game. It is always a good idea to encourage them to work together, regardless if they are in the same group or not.

[darude83]

I think the system is working pretty decent as is at mo . Last night I was in black crag for around 4 hours got a huge amount of renown ( more than usual ) didn’t win a bag but can’t complain as I’ve won a lot recently . Playing as snb tank I try my best to guard / oathfriend my group htl etc all the tanky stuff . If I see a guy in trouble and I’m in a position to help I will because it’s for the greater good of the side you playing on . You benefit from helping them regardless of getting contribution as every small bit You do could help push towards victory in the end . Am I going to stop being a tank just cus I don’t get the contribution for certain things I might do ? No that’s only dmg your overall chances imho . So why should healers think any different ?

That's beside the point. You're playing your tank because you enjoy your role, helping others and participate in the fight. As do the healers, most will continue to do it, regardless if they are getting rp for it or not, because they enjoy doing it.

That doesn't take anything away from the fact, that Natherul is just plain wrong with his arguments, of course you and the healers should get rewarded for their efforts the same way damage dealers do. It's kinda ridiculous to even have to talk about it.

[witchdoctor]

It's pretty fine how it works now. Why should you get renown when you dont want to party up?
There is always a party or a warband with room for healers and tanks.

When i read the posts above i just think people want to follow good partys or warbands and throw some random hots to leech renown.
For that, you get some renown, and thats enough.

[Arbich]

In theory I agree that healers should get better rewards for healing out of group. After all it requires a bit more awareness than only heal your own group. But better rewards could also lead to a behavior like sioding gave an example for.
Its not that hard to get a group (or a duo with dps) as a healer, so it could stay as it is.
Personally I am amazed how much heal it usually get, when I do some solo zerg-surfing (so basically parasical behavior) and always try to return the favors when I am on my heal toons. For the Realm!

[Zealote]

None of the arguments against it seem particularly strong, except for the issue of people abusing it. Unless that can be solved, no rewards is probably the lesser of two evils.

As for "encouraging healers to group up", surely the same could be applied to everyone? A simple conditional: is player in group? No? Halve/quarter/multiply by 0 all rewards. For the record, I think this is an awful idea

There is a difference with tanks as well in that their helping other players usually involves at least hitting the enemy. As a healer who comes across a small scale fight, why bother healing your own side when you could add to the dps? The only reason to heal (from a completely selfish perspective) is to keep them alive if you don't think you'll be able to kill the other side on your own.

You are not discouraged to heal out of party, you are just not rewarded for it in a way you would like.

Those are two very different things.

That's just semantics really. The fact that you can get better rewards in another way is a form of discouragement.