Well, you can't also judge w/o taking into account whole structure of the class. Some classes/builds can get their 15pts and lose nothing but in case of Scout SW you will have to lose some essential stuff therefore the cost should be justified enough.Acidic wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:25 pmAgree but there needs to be some level expectations for these skills.
Just now I can understand the WL ones , they might not be great but I do not believe the goal is to be great, they complete a set of skills rather than in thief own . That is they Help the group and are not great for solo.
[SW] 15pt Path of Scout Ability
Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
I would suggest that the fix is in one of the many other SW balance threads and the 15 point should not be so powerful as this would force the class into a position that the other skills could not be improved.daniilpb wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:36 pmWell, you can't also judge w/o taking into account whole structure of the class. Some classes/builds can get their 15pts and lose nothing but in case of Scout SW you will have to lose some essential stuff therefore the cost should be justified enough.Acidic wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:25 pmAgree but there needs to be some level expectations for these skills.
Just now I can understand the WL ones , they might not be great but I do not believe the goal is to be great, they complete a set of skills rather than in thief own . That is they Help the group and are not great for solo.
In short it’s not the 15 point skill to balance a whole tree, well at least in my opinion
Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
This ability clearly won’t fix all the issues of the stance. It could fix like 1 out of 4 issues why this build can’t be played on par with other topdog rdps classes. It won’t prevent other abilities from being reworked/buffed/nerfed.Acidic wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:55 pmI would suggest that the fix is in one of the many other SW balance threads and the 15 point should not be so powerful as this would force the class into a position that the other skills could not be improved.daniilpb wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:36 pmWell, you can't also judge w/o taking into account whole structure of the class. Some classes/builds can get their 15pts and lose nothing but in case of Scout SW you will have to lose some essential stuff therefore the cost should be justified enough.Acidic wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 9:25 pm
Agree but there needs to be some level expectations for these skills.
Just now I can understand the WL ones , they might not be great but I do not believe the goal is to be great, they complete a set of skills rather than in thief own . That is they Help the group and are not great for solo.
In short it’s not the 15 point skill to balance a whole tree, well at least in my opinion
Also, if it wouldn’t be desirable, there is no sense in whole idea of 15pt skills.
Since they are that high in the trees, they must bring something huge to the table.
Look at dok/wps 15pt, it fixes enormous problem of the build and gives juicy bonuses.
Someday there will be a WoDS analog for BO which most certainly will be a 15pt ability. It could bring 2h BO to the whole new level.
There is no point in making those skills “optional”, they must be tied to certain specs empowering them.
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<FusionII>
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
The dok 15 point skill is utility based and not that directed to damage also with a 5 min cool down .
I just see the 15 point you suggest as having way to short a cool down and aimed at 1v1 rather than group or utility.
I just see the 15 point you suggest as having way to short a cool down and aimed at 1v1 rather than group or utility.
Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
Dude, please, it’s 30 seconds cooldown with the tactic which has 100% pickrate in dps build. It’s 100% diracted to dps build and tied to dual wield/2hander. So, please, just don’t...
1v1? I told you already that ability is spirit damage and SW can’t debuff it therefore w/o SM or AM it will deal ~100 damage with every hit. Good luck 1v1ing with it against horde of witch elfs and montro marauders. Top 10 pranks, no less.
Don’t know about your long weeks or whatnot but, please, don’t look silly
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Riphael - Black Guard.
Meridin - Sorcerer.
<FusionII>
Ripliel - Shadow Warrior.
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
As I recall it, UF was the lazy devs way of balancing SW damage so they could concentrate on the OP classes that everyone wanted to play instead of fixing all of the SW abilities. UF was basically a really bad band-aid in live. (I suspect) it ended up OP here in RoR because the devs are actually taking the time to fix the real problem. As I see it, this is a replacement for UF in Scout that doesn't make the newly balanced Skirmish & Assault damage OP. (It is a bit more complicated to balance Scout damage through the existing abilities because both Eagle Eye and Broad head are core abilities available in any stance.)
(Note, I basically have zero opinion this change one way or the other. I ran scout primary for a few months then ditched it and could never force myself run it primary again for more than 20 minutes.)
(Note, I basically have zero opinion this change one way or the other. I ran scout primary for a few months then ditched it and could never force myself run it primary again for more than 20 minutes.)
Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
Spoiler:
Last edited by Dabbart on Tue May 15, 2018 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
I reworked the proposal.
Added scales, one limitation and also tweaked numbers.
Added scales, one limitation and also tweaked numbers.
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<FusionII>
Ripliel - Shadow Warrior.
Arfi - Swordmaster.
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
A 15 pt. ability should not be a flat dmg buff. If you want to model it towards group utility, give it an AP-draining component.
I personally would much rather see an ability for soloing, a heal/stealth ability that turns Scout into a viable solo build, since there already are multiple grp builds avaible.
I personally would much rather see an ability for soloing, a heal/stealth ability that turns Scout into a viable solo build, since there already are multiple grp builds avaible.
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] new 15pt ability in Path of The Scout . [Close Date: 22nd May]
I think it's a good / fleshed out propossal and indeed lorefriendly.
can't say too much since I'm not a huge SW / SH player and actually should keep my nose out of this.
my concern:
not sure about the interactions with ASW for smallscale (burst overkill) and LA (RR70 spec with 15 left 12 right with PD) spam in RvR (though that's not my biggest concern).
It reminds me a bit of UF light and sugarfree. (so basically a worse UF)
maybe it would need to be limited to corresponding spells / abilities of the scout tree or exclude assault tree and LA / Barrage etc.
I could be totally off ofc; hard to say without seeing it ingame and being on the receiving end.
It still could be adjusted after implementation if it's overperforming.
can't say too much since I'm not a huge SW / SH player and actually should keep my nose out of this.
my concern:
not sure about the interactions with ASW for smallscale (burst overkill) and LA (RR70 spec with 15 left 12 right with PD) spam in RvR (though that's not my biggest concern).
It reminds me a bit of UF light and sugarfree. (so basically a worse UF)
maybe it would need to be limited to corresponding spells / abilities of the scout tree or exclude assault tree and LA / Barrage etc.
I could be totally off ofc; hard to say without seeing it ingame and being on the receiving end.
It still could be adjusted after implementation if it's overperforming.
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