College of Corruption.

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Tesq
Posts: 4532

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#51 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:21 am

NoRKaLKiLLa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:09 am
Join a guild, build a group, spec to complement each other. If you fail, alter your strategy, your specs and then your comp.

When that fails, or if you don't want to do any of the aforementioned, report back here how the other side has a better: map advantage, class advantage, number of (class which you don't seem to have any of), favor of the dev team, proximity to the server etc. Pick as many as you like.
Still dosent change the fact that melee > rdps in that sc , using hyper general solution to specific problem and say that they gona work wont solve the issue which gona return in again if any premade gina bother to queue it vs premade, but yes no one gona cuz i know is pretty normal queue the sc it favor/allow your comp to play consistently.

So yet again, make a second flag?

Make walls:

-Block los like keep doors and remove guard (this is how was in live)
-or put guards behind order spawn (parity between spawn camping countermeasure)
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anarchypark
Posts: 803

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#52 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:27 pm

you're saying only losing story.
it's like blind describing elephant.
here's winning story to show whole elephant.

bottle neck = few tanks can hold larger numbers.
more advantageous for ranges.
you can stop melee train at bottle neck with less melee.
reduce enemy numbers then push.
or you do melee train.
that's it.

lack of 2~3 tanks/heals to hold stair is issue of team comp, not map.

in every pug matches, melee train has advantage regardless of map design.

you know, runners contribute nothing. while they run your team have to suffer. ( kiting is not running )
and rdps are destined to run to get distance.

so melee train gets huge advantage simply by pushing forward.
and they secure key position adding more advantages.

interpret this as melee centric map is error.
every map is melee map according to this error.

there are teleporters to backline of each side. adding more strategy.

map is fine.
your issue is pug random comp.
suck it up when you pug.
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peterthepan3
Balance Moderator
Posts: 5297

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#53 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:43 pm

incredibly limited space to manoeuvre and kite makes this a meleecentric map. factor in the lava which further restricts said kiting and this is heightened even more so.
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Grunbag
R&D
Posts: 1054

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#54 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 pm

Tesq wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:21 am
NoRKaLKiLLa wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:09 am
Join a guild, build a group, spec to complement each other. If you fail, alter your strategy, your specs and then your comp.

When that fails, or if you don't want to do any of the aforementioned, report back here how the other side has a better: map advantage, class advantage, number of (class which you don't seem to have any of), favor of the dev team, proximity to the server etc. Pick as many as you like.
Still dosent change the fact that melee > rdps in that sc , using hyper general solution to specific problem and say that they gona work wont solve the issue which gona return in again if any premade gina bother to queue it vs premade, but yes no one gona cuz i know is pretty normal queue the sc it favor/allow your comp to play consistently.

So yet again, make a second flag?

Make walls:

-Block los like keep doors and remove guard (this is how was in live)
-or put guards behind order spawn (parity between spawn camping countermeasure)
This is not possible , firewall are not doors , and aoe doesn’t check los for now
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Grunbag
R&D
Posts: 1054

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#55 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:02 pm

If I make a second flag , on first floor , order will get even more faster to it , and fight will be only in stairs between first and ground floor
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Tesq
Posts: 4532

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#56 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:23 pm

Grunbag wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:02 pm
If I make a second flag , on first floor , order will get even more faster to it , and fight will be only in stairs between first and ground floor
Destru portal for mid floor as order have for groundfloor inside wc.

Stairs for both to reach flag near firewall as of now

Both side will have the same ways to push counter push; and force a cap meccanic like logrin forge so both sides need to push for both flags not just camp 1 + some kills.

Put 2 guards behind order firewall then

Make lava punt you up to midfloor so that order can jump down and destru can jump up

So both sides have :

-portal to reach enemy spawn closer flag from inside wc
-jump up/down to move between floors if stairs are blocked.
-stairs to move between floors
- guards near firewall preventing camping.
Last edited by Tesq on Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zaxxond
Legacy RR80
Posts: 245

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#57 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 pm

Unstoppable1776 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:05 am
Zaxxond wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:48 am
DokB wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 am
I haven't really played much Order in the last week, but I think they also get teleporters like Destro does (can someone confirm?)
Like someone said before, it's a map that heavily favours melee train set ups so obviously the Order pug groups - that are almost always tilted towards rDPS - are going to suffer.

It's a fun map but they should probably change how the firewalls work, since you can rift (Choppa/Magus/Engineer) people through them and get a guaranteed kill that way. Haven't seen any pulls from Mara/WL working like that but I know you can rift people on the stairs which I believe is a bug maybe with Z axis?
Yes. Choppas are able to pull through the stairs in this SC and in other instances. SS and video is needed for bug tracker.
Flags not near the firewall. If people are camping the wall they deserved to get pulled. Smart start on those classes imo.

My quote and response was referencing GTDC pulling through stairs in this SC. GTDC also pulls through other terrain (Too many use cases to list here)

You are saying a bug that is actively being exploited that helps MDPS with a RANGED pull is a "smart start" in a melee centric SC to combat the OP RDPS.

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Martok
Posts: 654
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Re: College of Corruption.

Post#58 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Zaxxond wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 pm
My quote and response was referencing GTDC pulling through stairs in this SC. GTDC also pulls through other terrain (Too many use cases to list here)

I personally haven't experienced any pull through either the barrier or other terrain, however in my video addressing the College of Corruption I included two segments which clearly illustrate the barriers can be attacked through.

At the 20:30 mark there is a freeze-frame of the central Destruction barrier up the middle stairs which clearly shows destruction players just on the opposite side casting either healing or other ranged abilities. In the video I use that frame to support my comment there is no need for Order to go up there, as not only can Destruction attack you but the guards will pull as well.

At the 21:00 mark there is a second freeze-frame specifically included to illustrate the barriers can be attacked through. A Witch Elf is standing on the opposite side of the barrier but is successfully attacking an Order player on our side. Again, I included this just so people would know the barriers stop enemy movement but not abilities.

My point here is twofold. One, just to state video is available if the powers in charge wish to see it and two, just offer support for Zaxxond's claim abilities work through the barriers.

I will look through my other video to see if there are any examples of pulling through terrain, and if I find any submit them to the devs as evidence.

EDIT: Ok, I found an example of pulling through terrain however given Grunbag's comment above concerning AOE not checking LOS I don't see there is anything to put on the bugtracker.

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Banjomissen
Posts: 48

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#59 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:17 pm

It's not only GTDC that pulls through stairs. Seen the Mara pull do it aswell.

Sulorie
Posts: 2869

Re: College of Corruption.

Post#60 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:20 pm

Tesq wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:23 pm
Grunbag wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:02 pm
If I make a second flag , on first floor , order will get even more faster to it , and fight will be only in stairs between first and ground floor
Destru portal for mid floor as order have for groundfloor inside wc.
Both sides have the teleport points on opposing sides on same floors. There is no advantage for either side, when using teleport.
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