[AM/Sham] Asuryan and Gork Trees [Close Date Aug 14]

[dshdf]

Their tactic is good. Id rather see a ini debuff on Sticky Feetz for Shaman. Archmage get toughness, spirit and ini debuff. Shaman get 2 ele debuffs which is a leftover from when Archmage had 2 spirit. Archmage MotM is like a 4% crit puddle. When you have BW spamming aoe its quite a tool.

without sticky feetz shaman burst on long range targets will suffer, 4% crit aint worth it. As for large scale ele debuff from sticky feetz boosts magus damage pretty nice. Ini bebuff suits betterr on scuse me, but im not sure that even in that case that would be better than current situation.

[Dabbart]

Personally, I’d love an Ini debuff on my Sham. But pure mirroring isn’t my favorite style of balance.

Brainstorming, but if we wanted Scuse Me!(or the AoE KB if Scuse Me! Is moved to mid tree) To “fit” a life-tap tree, why not something similar to SM’s Blessing of Heaven debuff? Ie, every time an grp member hits someone under it they regain XX health over 3s? Could put it on a 25% chance to eliminate the need for ICD if it was felt to be OP and swapped to 10s uptime 20s CD. Unsure if that’d be too powerful for a 5pt ability though.

Alternatively, a debuff to reduced chance to avoid by 5% would be awesome, it just wouldn’t “fit” that well.

Note: I am not sure I’d support similar for AMs. It doesn’t seem broken on its face, but AMs can already heal like crazy...

Also, it’s been my experience that DPS utility Shams fit in a 3/2/1 really well. Morale pump/DF/+crit chance or insta rezz works with a grp really well... and Sham DPS is quite good. “Good enough” for a slot in a 2/2/2 is an issue that Actual DPS classes already suffer. Buffing a class that has tons of utility and Heals to match a “meta DPS” would be OP imo. Hell, AM/Shams already have better heal debuffs (as in they have one) than Engi/Magus do...

[live4treasure]

Wait, actually... What if the 5 pt Vaul/Da Greenest ability was some form of cooldown with an AP generation function for the party, kind of like the SW ability or KotBS aura or some such, but with a duration and cooldown? This simultaneously brings a solid buff to a group and becomes a step taken towards solving some of the healing shamans' ap issues. By doing so, there will also be no scaling associated with it, as it could replenish a fixed amount, thus making it equal for any kind of spec and no less potent in the hands of a healer or dps.

Perhaps not the 50% uptime that Telen was hoping for as such an ability would necessitate a long cooldown in order to avoid it being overwhelming or uncounterable, but it is solid group utility. Something like 100 ap over 10 seconds with a 60 second cooldown. This likely doesn't matter for Healer AM at all, because the combination of restorative burst and wild healing already provides them with enough, at best they could take this in order to switch out one of these tactics to something else. For example, the one that decreases cooldown on Walk Between Worlds or some such. The question is, with all the recent changes to AM and Sham as a whole, would adding even more utility be too much?

P.S. Actually, it might be too close to Zealot and RP ap generation abilities. Probably not unique enough.

[Telen]

I dont think its unique enough. RP/Zealot already have it and KotBS is king of AP regen and like their resist buff would make another AM buff irreverent.

[dshdf]

. Something like 100 ap over 10 seconds with a 60 second cooldown. This likely doesn't matter for Healer AM at all, because the combination of restorative burst and wild healing already provides them with enough, at best they could take this in order to switch out one of these tactics to something else. For example, the one that decreases cooldown on Walk Between Worlds or some such. The question is, with all the recent changes to AM and Sham as a whole, would adding even more utility be too much?

P.S. Actually, it might be too close to Zealot and RP ap generation abilities. Probably not unique enough.

from my point of view Am/sham already got lots of utility abilities, my rotation for example already overloaded with it. In the same time dmg arsenal for sham is quite limited, so for sham it kinda better to get dmg spell with some utility than one more pure utility cast. Dabbart suggestion looks fine in that case

[live4treasure]

Pierce Defenses usually already covered by other classes, so to get a watered down version of it seems like once again, it won't bring anything unique to the table.

The heal thing is nice, but it once again becomes something healer will have more use out of than DPS.

If we don't go for it being a party buff spell, for AM it could be a Mage Armor-like spell from WoW that would somewhat increase their durability, for example. It could decrease your chance of recieving a critical strike by 5% and perhaps generate a 200-300 that doesn't scale with willpower (depending on level of investment in vaul) hp shield when being hit with a 3-5s icd. It's not really that much, but it's a useful buff for every archetype of AM and doesn't consume a tactic slot to achieve it. Or alternatively just decrease all damage taken by a static 5%. It's an enchantment, so it could be, and probably should be, cleansed. It's just a thought, since survivability is something the AM class could use in general. Alternatively, it can be made weaker and converted into a group buff. Perhaps something like a static buff that generates a 150ish hp shield that doesn't scale with willpower upon being hit on all party members with a 3s icd. In that sense, it's like the opposite of the Sorcerer's return damage buff, which might make sense thematically as well and add a tiny little bit of survivability to both the AM, which is sorely needed and would be a small step in that direction, and his team.

Shaman seem to be having issues with ap regen, so perhaps a debuff placed on the target that restores 10 ap to every attacker in his group when hitting the specfic target with a 1s icd and a 9s duration, the cooldown being 30 seconds. Lifetap shaman could benefit from this because it essentially means that all his lifetaps will cost 10 AP less, very cheap and might be a step towards solving some AP issues.

I don't think this ability should be immensly powerful, honestly, the class in general already has enough toys to play with, so something small but beneficial is probably a good way to go.

[Telen]

Well I thought similar to the way WP/DoK get a parry buff/debuff in their lifetap tree. AM get a disrupt buff and shaman get a disrupt debuff. It fits the way WAR mirrors one side having an ability and the other its counter, usually des with the offensive and Order the defence. Would make drain more reliable and give Shaman that lacking Strikethrough and give AM that group utility ability like a defensive Ere We Go. You could put the shaman one on a short dot if you wanted to make it an offensive Radient Gaze (do they need another dot though with GS)
Problems I see Magus already have a disrupt debuff but BO have a party 20% magic damage reduction. Not sure if order has a version.

[live4treasure]

I have two issues here.

The first is that a disrupt bonus wouldn't stack with Hold the Line effects, and if it did, it would be problematic considering existing disrupt rates, it's also questionable utility considering most destro 6 mans are melee trains. It's why perhaps a more general survivability buff in the form of a reactive shield, which works against everything and prevents critical damage from one attack as an auxiliary bonus would be better.

The second is that likwise with a disrupt buff, reducing disrupt rates won't stack with BG avoidance reduction, and if it did it would too be problematic. And even then, it would require that shaman be placed with a caster dps, it makes it awkward because if you want to bring one, then healer is still better as it doesn't demand a dps slot, and 100% uptime for such an ability wouldn't be required because your sorcerer isn't casting spells 100% of the time. I think we need something that isn't related to avoidance rates. Not sure what, personally. AP has been suggested, perhaps there's something else.

[Telen]

Tbh I’m not really bothered about 6 mans it’s such a niche part of the game and getting hybrids to take pure classes roles is a balancing tightrope. The amount of sorcs running around rvr would make it worthwhile. I just don’t want another class overbuffed even if it is my main. Just need a unique group utility that doesn’t scale and require large investment down Vaul so hybrid AM isn’t such a selfish class.

[live4treasure]

Still don't think disrupt chance/strikethrough is the right way to go about this, as it's an incredibly niche buff that requires you to make an exception for the standard game stacking rules. A 150-200 hp shield proc much like the chosen's mutated flesh tactic as an aoe buff with a fixed value that doesn't scale with anything, honestly, feels alright. Just providing an extra bit of disrupt is nothing exciting, and because making it anything more than 5-10% would make it too polarizing for the already struggling caster dps and providing aoe disrupt strikethrough for shaman would be overpowered if made to stack with BG effect. If you make it 5, it instead becomes underwhelming and barely noticable. Giving a proccing shield would at least be useful in all situations and isn't a significant enough effect to really overbuff anything at all.

That said, I honestly think that with the upcoming rework, the current healer am and sham are already in a very good place, with dps AM sham hopefully folowing them as well. Giving them a group utility ability that is actually good would be sending them over the edge and warrant later nerfs. It's why I think that this little utility should be a small step towards compensating a bit of the classes' respective inherent weaknesses, aka survivability for AM and some ap generation for sham, but not in any real way. Just a little. The usefulness would come from providing the benefit of this small effect to your whole team.