Something I noticed on the forums

[Nidwin]

(however SH can jump to order backline and do badgass arguebly same deal)

I have to comment on this one.
The backline has usually not many debuffs to cover Bad Gas, so group cleanse works very well against it.
Slayer cd increaser at frontline reduces pressure and there are much more debuffs flying around to cover it.

Yeah.
And there goes my attempt to stagger the backlines on my Magus. Or worse, well placed stagger to see big brown thing bounce into the backlines.

[Acidic]

Think the summary is that order pugs are pugs and those organized bomb warbands are thinking 1dimentionaly that bomb is bomb so we leave the rest of the tool kit behind (min/max)

Again, what toolkits are being left behind exactly? Can someone actually name these fantastic tools that is not getting used?

Ah yes forgot u only have BW

[wonshot]

Ah yes forgot u only have BW

Yawn. Can you think for yourself and actually mention some tools available, or do you just eccho what others are saying(and also failing to mention these imaginary fantastic tools that all orderlinger refuse to use)

But hey I will do it for you then;
- Engineer landmind with builduptime is the best aoe stagger in the game (engineer works to some degree as utility bot and is close to viable, but due to how much other dps classes are lacking behind Bright wizards damage the utility dont not make a big enough impact compared to replacing the engineer with an other BW. Sadly)
- Engineer Pierce defenses - yet an other engineer tactic that is amazing for melee based warbands. However no armor debuff makes the damage output obsolete to the magic powerhouse of BW. Sadly)
- AM moral pump - Great tool, and used every raid night. However the moraldrains of maraders are making M4s unobtainable.
- 2handed knight for wounds debuff and 10%crit
- Slayer M4 + Shattered limbs - Same reason as engineer damage and AM moral pump
- Engineer Armor plating M2 - Fantastic defensive moral stacking with other mitigations for a stuning 20sec. However destro is behind on damage and this tool will not help the core issues.
- WH moral drain and outgoing healdebuffs - Lacking the damage, slightly better mobility than BW though.
- WP wounds buffs - Already in use in every group.

Rest of the tools are either mirrored to destro, or simply so bad I dont even mention them.

Want me to teach you how to hold the line, aswel. or can you figure that out on your own?

[dansari]

Yawn. Can you think for yourself and actually mention some tools available, or do you just eccho what others are saying(and also failing to mention these imaginary fantastic tools that all orderlinger refuse to use)

But hey I will do it for you then;
- Engineer landmind with builduptime is the best aoe stagger in the game (engineer works to some degree as utility bot and is close to viable, but due to how much other dps classes are lacking behind Bright wizards damage the utility dont not make a big enough impact compared to replacing the engineer with an other BW. Sadly)
- Engineer Pierce defenses - yet an other engineer tactic that is amazing for melee based warbands. However no armor debuff makes the damage output obsolete to the magic powerhouse of BW. Sadly)
- AM moral pump - Great tool, and used every raid night. However the moraldrains of maraders are making M4s unobtainable.
- 2handed knight for wounds debuff and 10%crit
- Slayer M4 + Shattered limbs - Same reason as engineer damage and AM moral pump
- Engineer Armor plating M2 - Fantastic defensive moral stacking with other mitigations for a stuning 20sec. However destro is behind on damage and this tool will not help the core issues.
- WH moral drain and outgoing healdebuffs - Lacking the damage, slightly better mobility than BW though.
- WP wounds buffs - Already in use in every group.

Rest of the tools are either mirrored to destro, or simply so bad I dont even mention them.

Want me to teach you how to hold the line, aswel. or can you figure that out on your own?

tbf don't forget Focused Mending. Though these things are not exploitative to the same degree as mSH/GTDC/AP&morale drain Mara atm.

[Kreb]

Just want to mention that most destro pug wb contain a lot of toons that arent even lvl 40 and often dont have close to 8 healers. People just play rvr and gather whoever wants to join. Those people dont care about specc or gear, just being there and following the leader. Sure we die when the organised wb shows up, but we do have fun and play the game.

Being elitist doesnt help the debate and keep in mind that most players are not organised wich means fun gameplay for most = fun gameplay for ragtag pug wb.

[davispeed]

Just want to mention that most destro pug wb contain a lot of toons that arent even lvl 40 and often dont have close to 8 healers. People just play rvr and gather whoever wants to join. Those people dont care about specc or gear, just being there and following the leader. Sure we die when the organised wb shows up, but we do have fun and play the game.

Being elitist doesnt help the debate and keep in mind that most players are not organised wich means fun gameplay for most = fun gameplay for ragtag pug wb.

thank you ^^

[Xergon]

Just want to mention that most destro pug wb contain a lot of toons that arent even lvl 40 and often dont have close to 8 healers. People just play rvr and gather whoever wants to join. Those people dont care about specc or gear, just being there and following the leader. Sure we die when the organised wb shows up, but we do have fun and play the game.

Being elitist doesnt help the debate and keep in mind that most players are not organised wich means fun gameplay for most = fun gameplay for ragtag pug wb.

Hell yea, i bet it is a hell of fun to be on winning side, to be on side that most of the time dominates enemy. Till yest Order was fighting destro on 1 day in a week, and thats gone now. If TUP will continue what they do (w/o being AAO police) order will get farmed 24/7 in week - but hey, i enjoy playing in PUG WB its fun when orginized WB show up and help me fighting enemy, and actually do proper work. That's why many, believe me, many smart and good players switched side from order to destro simply because of factor "how easy it is". Many times they ask me to play destro: "Come man, come play destro, u cant believe how easy it is".

[Xergon]

Spoiler:

Do you argue with zealot aoe kb?
A skill only working, when you move towards the zealot at almost melee range, when the zealot is rooted, while channelling, with a very short knockback on top of it?
Not to mention that channel casts can be dealt with. How is this a threat to order warbands?

Put that zealot with guard on postern doors, gate, stairs or any other funnel position available on map (yes funnel position because its a place where that only order weapon which is AoE BW can do work) and your enemy can only wait for button with title RESPAWN to appear, because enemy can't HTL, can't Raze, can't Cast. I'm actually amazed that so few zealots use that utility properly, if more would start using it, every fight would be pure cancer...

And btw, its not channeling ability, which means you cannot interrupt it in a normal way, its self buff (BLESSING) which can be removed only by MeleeWH who cant get in range to do that or AM with special tactic for it and even after that he removes only 1 random blessing so there is no 100% counterplay to it...

But hey, as some folk said in RvR order chat "learn to kite enemy" i hope someone here can teach me how to do that on order, thanks.

WoI is 13+1 point skill and most Zealots are told to spec for AS (6s ranged stagger) and "optional" the heal debuff on critt hit. So it's one or the other.

A WH has a 100% disrupt and walks through WoI, WL pounce as explained in my previous post, any KB/stagger/pull will cancel WoI. I'm not certain about being silenced although but that would make sense as the damage is INT and not WP based.

It's a funny skill and you need to get used that your Zealot is going to rotate during the entire channeling depending on the movement of your target. As for interrupting it my guess would be yes as it's channeling and the reason why the Zealot rotates on target's movement.

Dude, learn game or learn to read, what part of "ITS SELF BUFF NOT CHANNELING" you did not understand... You cannot interrupt it in normal way (KD/Stagger/KB).
If rest of players are ignorant as you are right now, then i dont expect much from fair discussion....

[Sulorie]

That's why many, believe me, many smart and good players switched side from order to destro simply because of factor "how easy it is". Many times they ask me to play destro: "Come man, come play destro, u cant believe how easy it is".

What you describe are neither good nor smart players as you lose fast progress without aao bonus and you intentionally join the "easy" side, which doesn't qualify you as being good.

-------------------------

When BW deals to high damage to replace him with order utility classes, why not tone down its damage to make those classes more attractive? xD
I mean, it was said multiple times that order has the edge in damage because of BW. With more other classes in wb you get the utility you currently don't have, as you focus on raw damage.
Those spamable aoe moral drains are pure bs in my opinion, I would remove them all along.

[Xergon]

That's why many, believe me, many smart and good players switched side from order to destro simply because of factor "how easy it is". Many times they ask me to play destro: "Come man, come play destro, u cant believe how easy it is".

What you describe are neither good nor smart players as you lose fast progress without aao bonus and you intentionally join the "easy" side, which doesn't qualify you as being good.

So you saying TUP are bad players for example ?

I meant good players as they know how to play and whats going on in RvR battle. And as they recognize whats the problem, they simply don't want to fight against wall of brick with paper stick, because its frustrating so they switch side, and HAVE FUN and ENJOY GAME as one of here said it before.