Balancingteam, Developers and the community

[Feru]

"person's vision" seems to be a major problem in ror, we have many person's ;p

in my humble "vision" christmas create a good opportunity to reset the game to t1, wait till some xrealm measures can be implement to release t2, and "maybe" don't create more "balance" problems ;P
any chance to choose an aor version and fallow till city siege???

[peterthepan3]

Resetting to T1 is literally the worst thing we could possibly do: people would leave en masse.

[Xergon]

Resetting to T1 is literally the worst thing we could possibly do: people would leave en masse.

That's actually good thing, better server performance !
I'm ready to give up my toons, and start over, only if there is chance for proper balance ofc...

[adamthelc]

Sounds like whoever has the vision is really the de facto balance lead. That person should probably be managing everyone and calling the shots instead of coming in at the 11th hour.

Or just say you are happy with balance/unconcerned with it. I dont really care, I have my opinions about the way things are balanced, but I am content to play whatever iteration of this game is presented.

Just doesn't seem like it's a very tight ship that's being run. Doesnt bother me personally, but it seems a little embarrassing to keep having dirty laundry aired like this.

Would be interesting to know what the vision is, but I am not really asking for it.

[anarchypark]

passion is not always same as ability.
I know you guys tried but i'm sorry you don't have enough ability to balance game.
you are just players like rest of us.
being high rank or top K/D ratio is not important.

from recent patches i had impression that your thought process was too simple.
'this class need X to do Y'
'what do we need to win'
ofc you did more but it's my impression from results.

when aza or torq were balancing i could sense that they put a lot of thinking.
not just 'X need Y'. they were playing cube.
several years of patch notes prove that RoR leads have ability to touch balance. ( whoever they are )
new balance group are not.
it's just critic.

and yet you talking about something is blocking something.
we all know balance is monster.
your lack of ability is not flaw. don't be hard on you but don't blame others neither.

lastly, look for the losers, not just winners. for the big picture.

[Acidic]

passion is not always same as ability.
I know you guys tried but i'm sorry you don't have enough ability to balance game.
you are just players like rest of us.
being high rank or top K/D ratio is not important.

from recent patches i had impression that your thought process was too simple.
'this class need X to do Y'
'what do we need to win'
ofc you did more but it's my impression from results.

when aza or torq were balancing i could sense that they put a lot of thinking.
not just 'X need Y'. they were playing cube.
several years of patch notes prove that RoR leads have ability to touch balance. ( whoever they are )
new balance group are not.
it's just critic.

and yet you talking about something is blocking something.
we all know balance is monster.
your lack of ability is not flaw. don't be hard on you but don't blame others neither.

lastly, look for the losers, not just winners. for the big picture.

Don’t think it’s so clear cut. The big issue with balance is that it needs change to x or y and we know that change of any type causes ripples and unhappiness, this is the problem with any changes and especially balance changes. Only route should be the baby steps and keep grandiose plans hidden away so you can update it as you increment towards the idea of the plan not the detail.

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

passion is not always same as ability.
I know you guys tried but i'm sorry you don't have enough ability to balance game.
you are just players like rest of us.
being high rank or top K/D ratio is not important.

from recent patches i had impression that your thought process was too simple.
'this class need X to do Y'
'what do we need to win'
ofc you did more but it's my impression from results.

when aza or torq were balancing i could sense that they put a lot of thinking.
not just 'X need Y'. they were playing cube.
several years of patch notes prove that RoR leads have ability to touch balance. ( whoever they are )
new balance group are not.
it's just critic.

and yet you talking about something is blocking something.
we all know balance is monster.
your lack of ability is not flaw. don't be hard on you but don't blame others neither.

lastly, look for the losers, not just winners. for the big picture.

jup, saw that gave order 3 big moral drains, guardian wl, totaly balanced and not over the top( look at the cooldowns, going and say that class with like 120% more stats, incredible stupid mobility&kite ability, game mechanics etc.) look at this patch, total dominace of bw on order wb, hmm lets give aoe ele debuff to runi, the old defense formula...nearly no real problem got adressed in the past 3 years im here, as far as i can remember, no big meta changes->no real balance ever happend, which is really not easy to do(=
i could go on on game design individuality of classes etc.
yes, not everything was bad neither was much good. Explanations given for changes where like, nah i got that feeliing it should be like that now.
Now you had a transperant way, where you could toss in ideas and concerns, which is a nice idea, which also gives some problems.
how would you balance instead of need x or y counterable by a and b? roll the dice?
i have a total opposite view of what you wrote. for me neither torques or azas balance changes were satisfying.

[Acidic]

i Believe here you have to consider ability to deliver when looking at the change levels and pace. We have had changes driven by people who had a vision and the ability to deliver those changes, this means that their steps can be a lot bigger than a board with a process that depends on others. So board driven changes have to be more reserved as it takes quite a mechanism to get things through those hoops. This is standard agile stuff interactions have to be scaled to ability to deliver usable components.
A vision without detail is normally better approach for the final goal and the detail is iteratively added and adjusted.
That is don’t underestimate the challenge level a board has compared to lone wolf who has idea and ability to deliver. Board might come up with good solution but has an increadably hard job to deliver even in professional environment, not a surprise in a voluntary project that this is hugely challenging

[Tippings]

Spoiler:

I'll just drop this here. It might explain a few of the things brought up here.

Alternatively read through Azarael's comments as such, I am sure you'll be able to piece things together.

TLDR:
You can't teach anything that neither you nor the others unterstand. Let alone implement things that are brought up to you - regardless of how fleshed out they might be.

Your time has been royally wasted, fyi.

I'm afraid, it should be spoiler'd due to getting close to breaking server rules: 2.7 Intentionally damaging the reputation of the project is unfair.

Edit: In regards to the purple friendly reminder above:
1.) It's a former dev commenting on what's going on behind the scenes.
2.) It's publiclly accessible, and has been since atleast a month.
3.) The server's reputation has neither been damaged by me in the process of linking to the publiclly accessible comments issued by a former dev(s*) (who, by the way, elaborates it all in a calm and respectful manner), nor by the comments itself.
4.) This misdirection is getting stale: If you really think any of the participants of this balance related sub-project (who, to be blunt, have been intentionally missled (read: deceived) and had their time wasted), the former dev or anyone else speaking out against these antics are trying to harm the server, you cannot be helped.

*Genisaurus can be found commenting on the current climate, too. Albeit not as elaborate, for worse rather than better.

TLDR:
To honor the OPs intention, let me rephrase the following paragraph:
The people that are actively, continously damaging the server's reputation with their gawdawful antics do so with absolute impunity. Do not blame others for their actions.

Fixed it to save poster from possible trouble.

[Feru]

Resetting to T1 is literally the worst thing we could possibly do: people would leave en masse.

since when the "staff" is worried about "testers" leaving!? if i remember well, not many time ago your head GM was kicking ppl just because they don't response to him in a proper "hill billy" way (yes sir... sure master)