Broken WB Balance

[Dammy095]

main point is destro has 3 organised guilds when order has none, so those 3 guilds stomp pugs
thats not zealot or mara issue, we actually had non in our wbs 95% of time
its sorcs who kill you, not those 2 classes

[ragafury]

On order its called event and grand alliance, they dont use the z word over there, everything is heroic, ya know. <:-D <:-D

I also give my additional 2cent.

Whole thread seems rather pointless and wasted breath. I don't see a single order wb left remaining in the game where you could balance around.

Refusal of streamlining and metapicking is too high.

So, it is what it is.

You do realize that us and BT are a WB together most of the time and BT don't even run on Mondays anymore. There is not enough interest left order side for full AoE WB's anymore. No one wants them since they see them as a waste of time, hence the balance issues, hence this thread.

You also know for a fact that we spend most of the night separate Raga. You only have to look at your own videos for proof.

We switched to a comp we could work with, because AoE doesn't work against zealot punt and morale drain. You've seen it work, but it is not an AoE WB and it doesn't work against the big blobs.

Don't get me wrong i like you guys but i also remembering you running with the grand alliance when the grand alliance was the great alliance and not what it is now.

If you dont like snarky replies dont give snarky awnsers. Life is not a one-way street.

[ragafury]

main point is destro has 3 organised guilds when order has none, so those 3 guilds stomp pugs
thats not zealot or mara issue, we actually had non in our wbs 95% of time
its sorcs who kill you, not those 2 classes

Was it not CNTK and BT who started the hand holding? Before that premade warbands used to go alone

No comment on the main points?

Deep n Dry made it work why cant you?
Even if order is given more tools I doubt they would use them

[wonshot]

.... There is not enough interest left order side for full AoE WB's anymore. No one wants them since they see them as a waste of time, hence the balance issues, hence this thread.

just for the sake of it; why should the devs balance towards this "issue" if the interest is not there^^
- It was the same problem we ran into when we played, actually finding decent players who was willing to play propper, listen and follow commands was close to impossible so recruiting was simply not an option. I kinda had hoped this was no longer the case with a much higher average player population these days, but guess the order curse persists.

[Collateral]

Morale drain is not really a thing anymore as raga said. You need a decent amount of maras to be super effective (which means you lose some damage) and you won't drain the zerg anyway with 2 maras. For these huge zergs you need burst. And is it so hard to interrupt zealot punt? I guess it can be difficult to target him in a blob.

I haven't played order in a while, but I still believe a proper warband would dominate the lakes. You just need the skill and composition. Get the right classes, and learn the kite game. Too often I see wbs stand their ground while it's clear as day they will get stomped. Order at least has very good aoe cc. And while kiting, maras can't drain you

Everyone knows that bw is the bread and butter of order wbs, and possibly the strongest aoe class in the game. So if you want to win, you simply have to spam them. That's the way it is right now, and has been for some time sadly. Get a slayer or two and an engi and you should be able to roll over most destro wbs with relative ease.

But ofc this all depends on the interest of people. There's a lot of good players on order, you just have to show them all the things they can do together with a good leader and a solid comp. When phalanx went on order for the first time we didn't have huge trouble finding good players pretty much right off the bat. Maybe that changed as well tho I don't know.

[kindred4080]

@Karast
I agree with Ragah on pretty much everything, but...
- Flashfire still procs from itself (best pug farming ability)
- NRM as it was no more. Sad, but true.
- Lag kills even more.
- You really underestimate 2-3 slayers inside healers, who use shatter limbs and retribution (knight as a guard must-have).

I may missed something...

[Nishka]

To be honest I did notice that I have hard time getting even m2 during the duration of wb vs wb fights, while destros easily get m3 and higher. Since raze is now m3, they morale bomb the crap out of us.

[tazdingo]

crushing blows should just be mirrored morale bombing has always been cancer

[Karast]

Morale drain is not really a thing anymore as raga said. You need a decent amount of maras to be super effective (which means you lose some damage) and you won't drain the zerg anyway with 2 maras. For these huge zergs you need burst. And is it so hard to interrupt zealot punt? I guess it can be difficult to target him in a blob.

I haven't played order in a while, but I still believe a proper warband would dominate the lakes. You just need the skill and composition. Get the right classes, and learn the kite game. Too often I see wbs stand their ground while it's clear as day they will get stomped. Order at least has very good aoe cc. And while kiting, maras can't drain you

Everyone knows that bw is the bread and butter of order wbs, and possibly the strongest aoe class in the game. So if you want to win, you simply have to spam them. That's the way it is right now, and has been for some time sadly. Get a slayer or two and an engi and you should be able to roll over most destro wbs with relative ease.

But ofc this all depends on the interest of people. There's a lot of good players on order, you just have to show them all the things they can do together with a good leader and a solid comp. When phalanx went on order for the first time we didn't have huge trouble finding good players pretty much right off the bat. Maybe that changed as well tho I don't know.

That was then and this is now.

A lot changed in the recent patches and Mara drain is everywhere. We see it every night, every fight. All you have to do is go join an order WB in prime time as a tank or front liner, and unless you are BW good luck getting to M2.

[Karast]

On order its called event and grand alliance, they dont use the z word over there, everything is heroic, ya know. <:-D <:-D

I also give my additional 2cent.

Whole thread seems rather pointless and wasted breath. I don't see a single order wb left remaining in the game where you could balance around.

Refusal of streamlining and metapicking is too high.

So, it is what it is.

You do realize that us and BT are a WB together most of the time and BT don't even run on Mondays anymore. There is not enough interest left order side for full AoE WB's anymore. No one wants them since they see them as a waste of time, hence the balance issues, hence this thread.

You also know for a fact that we spend most of the night separate Raga. You only have to look at your own videos for proof.

We switched to a comp we could work with, because AoE doesn't work against zealot punt and morale drain. You've seen it work, but it is not an AoE WB and it doesn't work against the big blobs.

Don't get me wrong i like you guys but i also remembering you running with the grand alliance when the grand alliance was the great alliance and not what it is now.

If you dont like snarky replies dont give snarky awnsers. Life is not a one-way street.

You need to go back to your videos Raga! You were packing the same numbers with NRM and Ocara at your back!

But then we at least had fast M2 from BW. We either wiped you with BW M2's or you got to M2 / M3 and we ate it. Good times!