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Patch Notes 23/03/2019

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bloodi
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Posts: 1732

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#151 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:48 pm

Anyone who thinks 2h tanks are not "real tanks" should take a look at what game he is playing and how its played.

I dont see tanks doing dps damage or having any of the tools a dps has like HDs and so on, so, what is the big idea behind this besides someone pipe dreams about what each class should really do?

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#152 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:50 pm

Tesq wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:48 pm
Telen wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:27 pm
Its the same choice a dps healer has to make. Want to be an effective archetype. Gear and play to that. Want to be a hybrid or dps and you will be dead weight. Join the club.
yes but that should not matter regarding the weapon you use, i can build a tank def but using 2h and i have alredy a trade out im def but i loose hold the line for soemthing else, but my guard priority remain the same be a tank.

looking at healer problem

-heal bsed on dmg have a bad way to be calculated
-dps mastery are just bad and nto in line with pure dps
-if spec off you use off tactic if spec heal you use heal tactic

so why a bg spec def cant use 2h?

i can spec even off while in s+b nothing rpevent me to run full str full melee crit **** chance to be crit does that unlock me out of guard with this change not....

2h is not = dmg
s+b is not = def
Exactly, people need to understand that a shield doesnt make u a tank nor 2h makes u a dps.

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Yaliskah
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Posts: 1809

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#153 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 pm

Ok here we go.

Since the begining of this project we are testing, changing and keeping and removing changes in term of balance.

Purpose is always the same, bringing as much as possible balance to the game. Sometime change against all odds is good, sometime it is not. But fact is, nothing is engraved in the stone.

Server has been patched what.. 4 hours ago, and even some haven't tested anything,some complain, some rejoice, some don't see the reason, some understand the motive.

This test -cause like any change it is a test first- don't come from nowhere and is motivated by players feedbacks complaining that SnB are useless compared with 2H cause tankiness and general archetype tools are not really impacted in facts when DPS is demultiplied and tools even they can be different are still usefull for the group. I personally share this, and have played Snd and 2H tank in smallscale, and lets be honest, i see no advantage to play a SnB tank, excpet in Dungeons OR to Funnel/siege, which is very situationnal...

I guess no one expect that a DPS Healer for exemple heal as much as a pure Heal. We all know the story and the river of tears about this (DOK, WP, AM, Shaman...). When a DPS heal use his basic archetype, heals are divied /2. Thats a player choice, and no one coplains about it (except those you play with in scenario).

For the same reason, I don't see why a DPS tank would have 100% access to his basic tool, and as for for the heal divide guard /2 seems to be fair.

Now, lets put a little perspective in this. Guard hasn't been removed to 2H. It has been halved. Which means, they will absorb less damages from the target they will guard (50/50 > 75/25). Good thing for the player hmself, let received damage, more survivability.

To conclude. There is no crusade against anyone. There is even no realm balance issue. There is in my very honnest opinion some leverage given to SnB tanks vs 2H tanks in term of defensive tools for the group.

To conclude part 2 : Please stay cool and civilised, we can make mistakes, and our purpose is to make the game better not worse in the end. So concrete feedbacks are welcome more than over-reactions :).

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#154 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:59 pm

>snbs are useless
>go into orvr or fort
>90% players are using shields
>every organised guild warband has snb tanks only
>people get bullied for using 2h in forts
Yali pls

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Telen
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Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#155 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:03 pm

Tesq wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:48 pm
Telen wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:27 pm
Its the same choice a dps healer has to make. Want to be an effective archetype. Gear and play to that. Want to be a hybrid or dps and you will be dead weight. Join the club.
yes but that should not matter regarding the weapon you use, i can build a tank def but using 2h and i have alredy a trade out im def but i loose hold the line for soemthing else, but my guard priority remain the same be a tank.

looking at healer problem

-heal bsed on dmg have a bad way to be calculated
-dps mastery are just bad and nto in line with pure dps
-if spec off you use off tactic if spec heal you use heal tactic

so why a bg spec def cant use 2h?

i can spec even off while in s+b, nothing prevent me to run full str, full melee crit and **** chance to be crit... does that unlock me out of guard with this change? No....

2h is not = dmg
s+b is not = def
Because unlike healers guard mitigation doesnt work off any stat. If it did then specs, tactics, weapons would balance its effectiveness. If a archetype should keep its full effectiveness in its group role mechanic then there shouldnt have been an issue with .abex.
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Reesh
Posts: 644

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#156 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:09 pm

Yaliskah wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 pm

This test -cause like any change it is a test first- don't come from nowhere and is motivated by players feedbacks complaining that SnB are useless compared with 2H
We need to know the amount of "players" that did input that "feedback" around, was the number of those <10 perhaps? Were them Close friends? Guildies of developers?

As from this thread you can see the outright majority telling you it's utter crap, even without playtesting, as we know math and difference between 25% and 50% damage reduction.
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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#157 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:10 pm

Except block does work against guard. Therefore, a SnB tank DOES provide a better guard because they take less damage from it. This means less healing has to be done to the actual tank doing the guarding.

Also I question the logic. "SnB tanks aren't doing enough. Let's nerf 2H tanks!"

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#158 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:12 pm

Telen wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:03 pm
Because unlike healers guard mitigation doesnt work off any stat. If it did then specs, tactics, weapons would balance its effectiveness. If a archetype should keep its full effectiveness in its group role mechanic then there shouldnt have been an issue with .abex.
A weapon doesn't change the fact that you're still playing a tank, unlike the choice of dealing damage or healing for a healer. You can be a defensive tank with a shield or 2h, people choose to go 2h or 1h for different reasons but mainly because of the prerequisites of abilities and weapon procs.
Ramasee wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:10 pm
Also I question the logic. "SnB tanks aren't doing enough. Let's nerf 2H tanks!"
I don't get it either, if SnB tanks weren't doing enough then the lakes wouldn't be filled with them.

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Rydiak
Posts: 305

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#159 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:14 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:10 pm
Except block does work against guard. Therefore, a SnB tank DOES provide a better guard because they take less damage from it. This means less healing has to be done to the actual tank doing the guarding.

Also I question the logic. "SnB tanks aren't doing enough. Let's nerf 2H tanks!"
This. Tools were taken away from SNB (given "Great Weapon" requirement), and then people are shocked when some tanks go 2H for more utility? And like rmpl said, 90% of tanks in Forts are SNB anyways, so I'm not really sure of the purpose of the change. I guess we'll see how the meta adapts.
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bloodi
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Posts: 1732

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#160 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:15 pm

Yaliskah wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 pm


This test -cause like any change it is a test first- don't come from nowhere and is motivated by players feedbacks complaining that SnB are useless compared with 2H cause tankiness is not really impacted in facts when DPS is demultiplied and tools even they can be different are still usefull for the group. I personally share this, and have played Snd and 2H tank in smallscale, and lets be honest, i see no advantage to play a SnB tank, excpet in Dungeons OR to Funnel/sieg, which is very situationnal...
SEriously, link me those feedbacks because this seems to be a clear case of "havent you heard people talks about this?".

If anything 2h tanks are already looked down by people without a clue, there is plenty of isntances of it with the latest release of forts, so, you call Dungeons, funnel and sieges, situational but somehow, small scale is not situational?

Yaliskah wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 pm
I guess no one expect that a DPS Healer for exemple heal as much as a pure Heal. We all know the story and the river of tears about this (DOK, WP, AM, Shaman...). When a DPS heal use his basic archetype, heals are divied /2. Thats a player choice, and no one coplains about it (except those you play with in scenario).

For the same reason, I don't see why a DPS tank would have 100% access to his basic tool, and as for for the heal divide guard /2 seems to be fair.
No, i expect him to dps and do a proper dps job, sadly certain healer classes lack the tools to do so, however, all tank classes sans the BO/SM mirror lack the damage of a dps, let alone the tools like a HD, so you basically gave the them "tank" and "worthless" roles, Great.


Yaliskah wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 pm
Now, lets put a little perspective in this. Guard hasn't been removed to 2H. It has been halved. Which means, they will absorb less damages from the target they will guard (50/50 > 75/25).

To conclude. There is no crusade against anyone. There is even no realm balance issue. There is in my very honnest opinion some leverage given to SnB tanks vs 2H tanks in term of defensive tools for the group.

To conclude part 2 : Please stay cool and civilised, we can make mistakes, and our purpose is to make the game better not worse in the end. So concrete feedbacks are welcome more than over-reactions :).
If its not 50%, its useless, healers can already single target detaunt forever and aoe for a while, dps can aoe detaunt for a short amount of time, this is all higher value than a 2h "tank" guard will reduce, hell, even the tactic added to ranged damage will give you higher mitigation than this guard.

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