Balance Discussion Forum v3

[wargrimnir]

The Balance Discussion Forum is changing again.

Over the past several months there has been very little activity on the BDF as much of the focus was directed internally. We have always needed a public area to direct people and their proposals to. This version of the BDF takes much of the decision making duties off the hands of any moderator, allows developers to choose proposals to keep any direction flowing more harmoniously with internal leadership, and leaves it up to the community to come to their own conclusions about what to do with these proposals. There will still be rules, but it should be up to YOU as the poster to follow them, or your feedback may be silently disregarded.

Does this mean more frequent changes to classes?
No, probably not. Frequent changes are troublesome to gauge implementation and can be painful for groups slow to shift to new metas.

Does it mean Devs no longer make changes internally?
No, not at all, we will always reserve the ability to make changes to classes, whether it’s small adjustments, or larger reworks (which will be exceedingly rare).

We are planning running some of the more extensive changes through the BDF properly, if only to give you some fair warning that change is coming and why we're interested in doing so. With the experimental change to Guard and the ability to run in-game polls, we've realized that while we get a lot of noise on the forums about certain topics, reaching a broad base of players with in-game polls often leads to much less solidarity among general sentiment. Simply put, feedback was split right down the middle with many feeling that we didn't go far enough with Guard changes. This is due to the more hardcore focus we've had in balance for a significant period of time, where those at high levels of performance often fail to see what the path looks like to get there, or what the expectations of a class are to a wider base of players they may not regularly interact or agree with. While we have a large amount of respect for players at the top end of the meta, there is room to balance from the middle upwards, instead of solely balancing from the top down.

That might sound a bit ominous to our prior position on balance, but we're not looking to tear down a mountain of work that was largely done in good faith with good results. It does mean that we're more open to changes that can improve the experience of more average players on the server, provided they don't lead to imbalances at higher levels of performance. We hold in high regard players that can play a class to the highest level, and have expectations that no matter the shift in meta, they will find ways to succeed regardless. Stale meta is an enemy to PvP, no one really wants to see the same group composition dominate others for months or years at a time.

Personal note -
I will not be leading this endeavor on my own, but I will take an active role as needed to organize and coordinate among the devs who do the actual work and the other leads on the server to have a consistent vision between us. That's a role I've been filling in the background for quite a while.

[Ugle]

Looks promising

[RuffRyder]

With the […] ability to run in-game polls, we've realized that while we get a lot of noise on the forums about certain topics, reaching a broad base of players with in-game polls often leads to much less solidarity among general sentiment.

After the first in-game polls and Yali's feedback it's a good decision imho, since you will be able to reach more people plus giving players the opportunity to have a choice between short (and foremost relevant) feedback leads to somewhat more transparency.

Looking forward to the first proposals.

[nat3s]

Really encouraging post, particularly like the bit about a stale meta not helping anyone. If the meta doesn't evolve then players will stick to the classes they know work and shout down any changes which bring other classes close to competing with them.

It takes a bit of courage to go against the grain and ignore the high end with their totally understandable (yet damaging) desire to keep their specific classes on top. Good stuff!! Lets see some unusual comps begin to surface and freshen up the meta.

[Aurandilaz]

What happens to the several hundreds of already existing proposals that were either dumped by questionable decision making straight into "rejected" or "eternal pending review" pile, during last 2 years or so.
There are already dozens of good ideas waiting around the old balance forums, some may be outdated, but many of them still have valid concerns raised in them.

[tazdingo]

great news. i personally miss the days of wild and constant balance changes, though i'm not an overly competitive player so i don't know how this was effecting small scale balance. was always nice to see completely unnused abilities get turned into something more interesting though

[Tesq]

Or with in game Pools you are making vote ppl that do not get a crap of what you are talking about

Detaunt/guards are the only 2 solids dmg reduction in game appart avoidances because it's how the post stats calucation end after armor and res, if you had then to nerf 2h tank maybe you shouls had not put in game stuff like:

-sentinel immunity proc
-2h weapon speed proc

Stop make tank DD like in small scale

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What about all those proposal doomed into oblivion for now?

[wonshot]

and have expectations that no matter the shift in meta, they will find ways to succeed regardless. Stale meta is an enemy to PvP, no one really wants to see the same group composition dominate others for months or years at a time.

This sounds very 6man focused. So will the focus of balancing towards both 6man and warband warfare change, or still be a rough balancing act between the two=

It sounds good, especially the ingame polls.
#AOEknockdownForOrder

[simtex]

Too bad most proposals turn into shitstorms with complete pugs giving their '2cents', those same people who ride the blob every evening and get farmed like tards anytime they're left outside said blob.

GL though

[Acidic]

Sounds scary, will be fun to read some of these threads with reduced moderation