working as intended

[Sulorie]

Try to add armor debuff like any phys. DD is meant to use and then see how much less efficient your armor penetration becomes, as debuff is applied first.

[jasonX]

How have you applied toughness mitigation to you calculation? It's not clear to me

To my knowledge toughness gets to be accounted for first. Meaning with 500 toughness you get -100 damage reduction. So out of 660 SFA you get 560 and then you get to calculate armor mitigation etc.

[jasonX]

Try to add armor debuff like any phys. DD is meant to use and then see how much less efficient your armor penetration becomes, as debuff is applied first.

SW armor debuff goes max at -900 armor (at max scout skill tree, which never is the case but anyway lets go by that)

So
Case 1 with ballistics capped. same calculations till armor
2800-900=1900 1900*(1-42,4%)= 1094 armor which is around 25% damage mitigation
660*(1-25%)= 495 dmg (with 500 toughness its 660-100=560 560*(1-25%)= 420 dmg)

Case2 with weaponskill stack. same calculations till armor
1900*(1-51.4%)=923 armor which is around 21% damage mitigation
626*(1-21%)= 495 dmg (with 500 toughness its 626-100=526*(1-21%)= 415 dmg)

So if the target has 500 toughness and 2800 armor as cloth then stacking ballistics and taking into account toughness mitigation you get to deal 5 damage more.......... which can very easily be within the margin of error rounding up numbers plus no SW really goes all the way up the Scout tree to get that full 900 armor debuff. Making an estimation as usually engineers do i consider the damage to be equal in both cases
a) IF the target has no more than 2800 armor (which is rarely the case since the most light armored ones stacking armor gems can easily get to that number)
b) IF the target has >500 toughness (which, lets face it, is not a usual amount of toughness, most people have around 200-300)
c) IF the SW has a full scout tree spec up to the top (which is almost never the case)

Damn i love maths!!!

[Ysaran]

Try to add armor debuff like any phys. DD is meant to use and then see how much less efficient your armor penetration becomes, as debuff is applied first.

SW armor debuff goes max at -900 armor (at max scout skill tree, which never is the case but anyway lets go by that)

So
Case 1 with ballistics capped. same calculations till armor
2800-900=1900 1900*(1-42,4%)= 1094 armor which is around 25% damage mitigation
660*(1-25%)= 495 dmg (with 500 toughness its 660-100=560 560*(1-25%)= 420 dmg)

Case2 with weaponskill stack. same calculations till armor
1900*(1-51.4%)=923 armor which is around 21% damage mitigation
626*(1-21%)= 495 dmg (with 500 toughness its 626-100=526*(1-21%)= 415 dmg)

So if the target has 500 toughness and 2800 armor as cloth then stacking ballistics and taking into account toughness mitigation you get to deal 5 damage more.......... which can very easily be within the margin of error rounding up numbers plus no SW really goes all the way up the Scout tree to get that full 900 armor debuff. Making an estimation as usually engineers do i consider the damage to be equal in both cases
a) IF the target has no more than 2800 armor (which is rarely the case since the most light armored ones stacking armor gems can easily get to that number)
b) IF the target has >500 toughness (which, lets face it, is not a usual amount of toughness, most people have around 200-300)
c) IF the SW has a full scout tree spec up to the top (which is almost never the case)

Damn i love maths!!!

Maths is surely great, but... You have to use the right formula to make it work properly!
The damage you RECEIVE from enemies attack is calculated as:
Damage + offstatmod * (offstat - yourtoughness) + weapondps * dpsmod. Now game check for crit and then armor mitigation happen.
So you calculations are too approximate to be considered worthy since you don't consider the variables "offstatmod", "weapondps" and "dpsmod". The reality is that only devs can calculate damage accurately.
Note1: I stole the formula from RoR FB official page, if you want the source I can edit this post later, now I'm not at pc.
Note2: I'm not sure what "Damage", maybe it's skill damage? I'm not sure about it

[Aurandilaz]

350dmg on a highly defensive toughness stacking target is pretty much normal. Which is why you bring variety of tools like armor debuff, toughness debuff into the play and "assist" with other dps to burst someone down.
Other dps also face same defensive calculations. They stack similar high 900-1000mainstats.

Your SW has the benefit of being able to pewpew from range. Melee do not have said benefit. SW benefit over Engi is being able to be more mobile and not tied to a fast exploding pet.

BW/Sorc pay for more dmg via crit/suicide mechanic. SW does not have suicide mechanic.
WH/WE pay by going as light armor into melee range with limited defences where they can stab enemies with Torment/AW. You do not need to go close range to finish enemies as SW.
SL/Choppa pay for their Berserk mechanic by having even less defences than light armored targets, and exploding like freenown pinatas if not properly carried by team in most fights, they pay high cost for high dmg returns.
Mara/WL sure can be an anomaly with decent risk when engaging as medium armor mdps, but also risk death at frontlines, and if excluding WL burst from calculations, have generally mediocre dmg output but also mediocre risk.

I am not sure where you expect your SW to stand, when taking into account 1) no pet handicap 2) not forced into melee range 3) can switch stances to gain benefits from Assault armor which can make you tankier than most melee can dream of 4) generally able to pick fight from range and kite so much enemy never catches you 5) access to ranged CC

Maybe in your ideal world SW gets bonus from Berserk without handicap, Stealth without handicap, Pounce without handicap (oh wait...nvm), massive armor without handicap (wait a sec...nvm)

[Ysaran]

350dmg on a highly defensive toughness stacking target is pretty much normal. Which is why you bring variety of tools like armor debuff, toughness debuff into the play and "assist" with other dps to burst someone down.
Other dps also face same defensive calculations. They stack similar high 900-1000mainstats.

Your SW has the benefit of being able to pewpew from range. Melee do not have said benefit. SW benefit over Engi is being able to be more mobile and not tied to a fast exploding pet.

BW/Sorc pay for more dmg via crit/suicide mechanic. SW does not have suicide mechanic.
WH/WE pay by going as light armor into melee range with limited defences where they can stab enemies with Torment/AW. You do not need to go close range to finish enemies as SW.
SL/Choppa pay for their Berserk mechanic by having even less defences than light armored targets, and exploding like freenown pinatas if not properly carried by team in most fights, they pay high cost for high dmg returns.
Mara/WL sure can be an anomaly with decent risk when engaging as medium armor mdps, but also risk death at frontlines, and if excluding WL burst from calculations, have generally mediocre dmg output but also mediocre risk.

I am not sure where you expect your SW to stand, when taking into account 1) no pet handicap 2) not forced into melee range 3) can switch stances to gain benefits from Assault armor which can make you tankier than most melee can dream of 4) generally able to pick fight from range and kite so much enemy never catches you 5) access to ranged CC

Maybe in your ideal world SW gets bonus from Berserk without handicap, Stealth without handicap, Pounce without handicap (oh wait...nvm), massive armor without handicap (wait a sec...nvm)

Always true, no pain no gain. SW have no backlash, and so no advantage

[aa91837]

another one "give my sw engi/magus range+ dmg increase" thread?

[ahzzag]

As someone else mentioned... high risk, high reward - low risk, low reward... low risk = SW

[Sesquap]

All this ruckus because a SW, that stacks armor - whilst being member of a dedicated large scall guild no less - and that goads pugs into pushing with avoidance M1 through funnels held by organised opposition, fails to pewpew.

If only armory displayed .getstats and masteries, and more so if people unterstood basic concepts (such as stat-coefficients)...

Gullibility is a helluva drug, isn't it? Duels got reimplemented, dummies are a thing and parsers are aswell, recording footage isn't rocketscience either... all these fancy tools and yet none of you demands data, you just roll with screenshots devoid of any context.
Then again, you might just intend to kill time - taking drivel at face value, parroting misinformation and arguing neverendlessly without ever having established a solid basis for discussion might just be your schtick.

Prepare your popcorn for the balance forums, it's gunna be hilarious.

[jasonX]

Maths is surely great, but... You have to use the right formula to make it work properly!
The damage you RECEIVE from enemies attack is calculated as:
Damage + offstatmod * (offstat - yourtoughness) + weapondps * dpsmod. Now game check for crit and then armor mitigation happen.
So you calculations are too approximate to be considered worthy since you don't consider the variables "offstatmod", "weapondps" and "dpsmod". The reality is that only devs can calculate damage accurately.
Note1: I stole the formula from RoR FB official page, if you want the source I can edit this post later, now I'm not at pc.
Note2: I'm not sure what "Damage", maybe it's skill damage? I'm not sure about it

All the damage is depicted properly in the skill tooltip damage which refreshes every time you make a change on your offensive stat your gear etc. I made a lot of trials on target dummies and the only stat not depicted in skill tooltip damage is Ranged power (and melee power respectively i suppose) which adds a minor bonus that is not shown on the tooltip dmg. Thats why i did not include ranged power on my calculations to keep them simple. Other than that the damage dealt by skills is correctly reported as i told you so.

The formula u r using might be correct but you do not have to take it into account since the skill tooltip damage gives you the result of that formula already.

So offstatmod (which i dont really know what it is) and weapondps and dpsmod variables are already depicted in the tooltip damage. My formulas take that into account already. My maths work please make some trials yourself and use the maths properly . You will see that I am right. Dont keep feeding the bro-science loop.