working as intended

[jasonX]

In the formula appears the enemy toughness so: no, not all is included in tooltip values. At least offstatmod is out of tooltip-value since in the formula appears offstatmod*enemytoughness. Moreover dummies have zero toughness and zero armor

Ofc toughness cannot be included in the tooltip values you cannot have tooltip damage with an unknown target's unknown toughness.... The tooltip helps you understand the damage to be dealt as a result of level based damage + weapon dmg + relevant stat damage as a total (not including ranged power as already said). Toughness is to be calculated after that in the equation. For example when a WE was using Agonizing wound on me i was only mitigating 20 damage per hit since i was running on 100 toughness. Which makes sens.

Still I am curious to understand your point regarding the offstatmod you are referring to. You are confusing me. Can you use numbers and examples? Your description on how the formula you are referring to works is quite chaotic. Can you become a bit more specific with the existing variables in the problem (1050 ballistics, 500 enemy toughness, 2800 enemy armor, 700 weaponskil)?

[jasonX]

If you are expecting Sl/Ch like dmg on a R A N G E D pewpew class that has no special "high risk - high reward" mechanic... honestly I am not sure how to keep arguing without losing my sanity.
You choose few special screenshots devoid of any wider context regarding groups setups or class debuffs/buffs applied, and then complain that you are you not hitting hard enough against a defensive survival spec healer...

If you want to play a low risk low reward class like ranged SW, keep playing. If you want more dmg, but also want to take greater risks or experience a truly suicidal level of gameplay or getting your fight ruined due to pet handicaps and Achilles heels... try some other rdps or mdps?
Personally if I were trying to become better on SW, I'd check what Zeromancer is doing and trying to become as good at nuking people on a "gimped" class, that still retains armor debuff and ranged KD, and with good battlefield awareness while playing it safe away from enemy melee trains.

Well if you consider dealing 20% of a SL/CH damage makes a class more eligible as a dps than a healmode healer then I cannot reason with that. 1s cast skill equals to half autoattack damage.... that makes sense?
Please read the thread carefully, there were no premade groups, 2 shammies alone in the pug scenario..... no uber combos there....

Considering a SW low risk is as naive as saying that a shammy can be killed-outkited by a tank.... I wont get inside that conversation.

I have other melee dps alts including WL, Choppa. WE, believe me, i eat SWs and SH for breakfast with those and I havent even hit 40 in either of them.... (boister rank helps a lot though). The escape mechanism of a SW is so easy to counter that I am laughing and crying every time i see one using Wirwind pin. I get to reach them 100%.
Zeromancer hasnt been playin for a long time. He went a bit active only lately for some PvE... The SW you knew is dead since the nerf of November. I know that since I went from 45-65rr running that scout spec which was favoring soloing and had decent dps output. Till it was nerfed to the ground....
The armor debuff is 700 armor, countered by an armor pot, the ranged KD is on the top of the skill tree that has the weakest attacks out of all the SW builds. Takeing it you surrender 1s cast EE combo with heal debuff. I do run this spec and although i love it since its on the core of the SW role play its still non viable.
I cannot run away from a spam pounching Squig and almost all melee trains have one right now. YOu have probably played against White Lions you know what I am talking about....

Roll a SW and you will see all my points.... (not in T1 of course)

[Ysaran]

to put it simple:
is offstatmod inside damage formula? yes!
do you know what offstatmod is? no!
can you calculate damage output? no, because you dont know how much offstatmod*toughness is, since you dont know how much offstatmod is.
Moreover dummies dont have armor and toughness so you test are worthy since, again, in damage formula appear the varaible offstatmod*toughness and if toughness=0 (like in dummies case), it wont appear on number.

[ahzzag]

Maybe in your ideal world SW gets bonus from Berserk without handicap, Stealth without handicap, Pounce without handicap (oh wait...nvm), massive armor without handicap (wait a sec...nvm)

Again trying to get people within the refereed issue and not to stat whining on whats in their head at the time while keeping them off the bro-science loop theory craft... QUite a hard job...


I am not debating the mobility of a SW because if i did then we would have to make 999999 posts over why wirlwin pin sucks and every single tank and mdps can not only catch up to you but also dps you while you cannot defend attacks on the air or why not having a snare breakloose and a charge skill doesnt help you be mobile.
Moreover i do not even refer to the benefits of the melee SW since 99% of the SW DO NOT CREATE A SW TO PLAY A MELEE CLASS! (btw does SH or WL or Mara have a handicap for their pouncing abilities? anyways).
I will not even debate the SW "imba" armor buff cuz then I would have to analyze in 1000 rows how Azezune's mara crited me with Guilotine for 1.2k on my 6.2K armor fun set combination..... (yeah armor stack screws over squigs and SWs but not the rest)



I am just referring to the joke of a damage output of the skirmish stance against so-called "cloth" armor classes.

350 dmg per 1 sec against a target with 7000 hp is...... 7000/350= 20 seconds of spamming an afk shaman to die...
A shaman is by nature a caster, a CLOTH caster actually.
A mara will require further more time to die and a tank is out of the question
If you consider that a serious damage output then I do not think we have much to say... A choppa/slayer autoattack by only one out of his 2 weapons would do the same damage as my casted skill without a berserk mode.

So you are not debating or referring about pro's of an mobile and stance-dancing high armored defence (a)sw?
but arguing about your are not able to onehit/burstdown an deff-skilled-geared healer while on range and benefit all mentioned above?
You cant be serious

[jasonX]

to put it simple:
is offstatmod inside damage formula? yes!
do you know what offstatmod is? no!
can you calculate damage output? no, because you dont know how much offstatmod*toughness is, since you dont know how much offstatmod is.
Moreover dummies dont have armor and toughness so you test are worthy since, again, in damage formula appear the varaible offstatmod*toughness and if toughness=0 (like in dummies case), it wont appear on number.

I dont really need simple, you can go ahead and get full analytical on me, I can take it. I can comprehend ordinary differential equations, integrals (single, double and curved), linear algebra and much more.

Still just to make sure I just logged on my tank which has 408 toughness, stripped it off all my armor so that i have 0 armor and got it to receive damage from a mob. At 408 toughness i mitigated 81 dmg per hit just as the toughness tooltip says on the character window. so 81/408= 0.20 (rounded up from 0.1985). Your offstatmod*toughness equals to 0.2*toughness
and that backs my initial calculations up. Do you get it? If not there is a simple way to understand how it works. Get one of your characters, strip it from armor and go pull aggro from a mob. you will see that for every 5 toughness you will mitigate 1 damage. And thats how toughness works now on the server and what's that offstatmod variable about.

See how easy everything is with maths? Still please.... before answering a post with a 100% certainty attitude try basing your answer on tests, maths and real results dont just get confused and confusing with variables that dont make sense. If you get to work it out all variables make sense, especially in properly written code.

[jasonX]

So you are not debating or referring about pro's of an mobile and stance-dancing high armored defence (a)sw?
but arguing about your are not able to onehit/burstdown an deff-skilled-geared healer while on range and benefit all mentioned above?
You cant be serious

I couldnt care less for (a)sw. They can nerf it as much as they wish if they make the other specs viable. It might be like less than 5% of SWs that roll a SW to play assault.

So you are telling me that what you got from my posts is that I am asking for that 350 dmg per 1s cast hit to be turned to a 7,000 dmg per 1s cast hit? Cuz thats what it takes to 1hit that shaman. How the heck did you get that conclusion from my posts?
I think you are having problems with your perception over reality or you are just a usual troll.

[Skullgrin]

Let's see...

ctrl+f - search for phrase "git gud"...

*no results found*

Think I may have found the problem...

[ahzzag]

So you are not debating or referring about pro's of an mobile and stance-dancing high armored defence (a)sw?
but arguing about your are not able to onehit/burstdown an deff-skilled-geared healer while on range and benefit all mentioned above?
You cant be serious

I couldnt care less for (a)sw. They can nerf it as much as they wish if they make the other specs viable. It might be like less than 5% of SWs that roll a SW to play assault.

So you are telling me that what you got from my posts is that I am asking for that 350 dmg per 1s cast hit to be turned to a 7,000 dmg per 1s cast hit? Cuz thats what it takes to 1hit that shaman. How the heck did you get that conclusion from my posts?
I think you are having problems with your perception over reality or you are just a usual troll.

To sum up what ive got from you posts is that you complain about an skill with 1s cast time, that could be cast on the move without an cooldown while you are kiting, is doing only 350 dmg. To be honest maybe you should check out other rdps and compare them to each other to recognize that there are a lot more restrictions on them in order to do more dmg (eng, bw, sorc) most of them got longer casttime, you cant move while casting and got to build up class mechanics to be powerful.
I cant get the point that you want to do more dmg on skills without any restictions?
correct me if i am wrong but skirmish ment to be low base-dmg, doting and kiting... skirmish not ment to be nuking, even more on healers.
again you cant be serious with you post, if you realy expect to burst ppl with skirmish on your sw. probably this would even work on ppl that are not def skill and geared. another note. maybe its not all about math and formulas. maybe its simply not ment to get ppl dwon by spamming SFA. so please stop complaining about, cause there is no problem.

[adamthelc]

Skirmish stance doesnt really live up to its name. No problem with the damage, but the stance should grant you better protection.

You could do that many ways. The stance could be like Monstrosity, the stance could give you some type of speed buff, the spec could have more AoE CC like snares or it could have some type of greater escapability.

Being able to kite a single person doesnt make you a skirmisher in large scale combat.

SW/SH arent really that much more mobile than Sorcs or BWs. They just dont blow themselves up, which is negated with decent heals.

I dont have any real problem with the status quo, but SWs could have been done a lot better. Thematically mSW are the closest thing to what a SW should be, but even they are a little off. The pounce doesnt make sense and they should only be good in melee vs soft targets. That is ignoring all practical realities when it comes to balance though, so it's not that important.

[MedV]

As a medium armor toon I still get hit pretty hard by SW.

If you are new to the class, you should message some high rr Sws maybe they can help you on rotations or builds. Lots of ppl are really nice on the server. Im sure the lil git was guarded and had you detaunted. He also stacks armor/tough. Dont be discouraged with some practice on picking targets youll get better!

PS- I hit guarded Slayers for the same kind of dmg but Im in melee range! Just learn to switch targets and hit the same char others are hitting.