Chosen are underperforming vs Kotbs in group play

[Ramasee]

At the end of the day, Chosen do not compete with Knights for spots in group. This statement removes the foundational work for the majority the argument of this thread.

Rather than focusing on how your "mirror" is better, you should focus on being competitive in group spot compositions; and then making sure that overall group compositions between the factions can end up with similar outputs.

This goes for every last "my mirror is better than me" threads.

[peterthepan3]

((Sarcasm mode On))
It is such a bad class that you can never see one. Nobody wants to play it. You enter in an scenario and no destro tanks at all, way less a Chosen.
((Sarcasm mode Off))

Now, come on, are you freaking serious? 1 out of 6 destro players is a Chosen in most of the situations. There are literally more tanks in destruction realm than dwarves in Ekrund.

This post right here sums up why you should not be commenting on things you have no idea about. High quantity of X does not mean that X is good: just because you see a high quantity of Chosen players in pug environments means **** all because you also have an abundance of melee BWs, DPS WPs with 30% chance to be crit, WEs who pop on Cannons in the middle of a Zerg or quadruple-guarded healers...it's a poor argument people use when they have nothing else of substance to counter with.

Chosen offers auras to a 6-man... aaand that's about it: everything else he provides (KD, KB) can be provided by either the BO, or the BG, along with other group utility. Wasteland Ruse should never have been turned into some ghetto version of Runefang as it has simply exacerbated the state of Chosen in group play.

PS. The utter contempt with which you responded to Sleepy's comments is fascinating. Sleepy is one of the best tanks that I have ever played with, and has a track record for being impartial, given that he plays both realms in equal measure, so you would do well to show him a bit of respect, and regard his feedback with an ounce more consideration.

PPS. No doubt you'll report this post for bullying, villainising, racism or some other -ism, but sometimes, the truth needs to be spoken.

Yes but too much crit here and there from him ,i think anyone who dont know him would had react with a bit of bias.

You don't have to agree with, nor support what Beer is proposing (I don't necessarily agree with everything), but to show utter contempt from the get-go, and disregard everything with a 'wElL, I sEe 303 pUg chOsEnz iN MY SceNArIoZ sO ClAAssS iZ fIne!1one'-tier counter is both comical, and betrays to the world how little you know about balance.

[Tesq]

This post right here sums up why you should not be commenting on things you have no idea about. High quantity of X does not mean that X is good: just because you see a high quantity of Chosen players in pug environments means **** all because you also have an abundance of melee BWs, DPS WPs with 30% chance to be crit, WEs who pop on Cannons in the middle of a Zerg or quadruple-guarded healers...it's a poor argument people use when they have nothing else of substance to counter with.

Chosen offers auras to a 6-man... aaand that's about it: everything else he provides (KD, KB) can be provided by either the BO, or the BG, along with other group utility. Wasteland Ruse should never have been turned into some ghetto version of Runefang as it has simply exacerbated the state of Chosen in group play.

PS. The utter contempt with which you responded to Sleepy's comments is fascinating. Sleepy is one of the best tanks that I have ever played with, and has a track record for being impartial, given that he plays both realms in equal measure, so you would do well to show him a bit of respect, and regard his feedback with an ounce more consideration.

PPS. No doubt you'll report this post for bullying, villainising, racism or some other -ism, but sometimes, the truth needs to be spoken.

Yes but too much crit here and there from him ,i think anyone who dont know him would had react with a bit of bias.

You don't have to agree with, nor support what Beer is proposing (I don't necessarily agree with everything), but to show utter contempt from the get-go, and disregard everything with a 'wElL, I sEe 303 pUg chOsEnz iN MY SceNArIoZ sO ClAAssS iZ fIne!1one'-tier counter is both comical, and betrays to the world how little you know about balance.

Well yes,i have to admit he exagerate

[Tesq]

At the end of the day, Chosen do not compete with Knights for spots in group. This statement removes the foundational work for the majority the argument of this thread.

Rather than focusing on how your "mirror" is better, you should focus on being competitive in group spot compositions; and then making sure that overall group compositions between the factions can end up with similar outputs.

This goes for every last "my mirror is better than me" threads.

Mumble mumble...look around, sm+kobs is better than ch +bo as fir now....

And even if i can add against the utterly broken you wot. . still it wont change that bring a kobs is like bring a ch+bg fused togheter plus a free group stacking heal buff ( in before any argument about requiring healing aura...that " heal" aura also regen ap contrary to chosen...).

Again chosen is slight underperforming and kobs still have stuff to nerf (and even utterly bad stuff to buff aswell, because im not bias).

Problem here is no one running balance sectiom to fix "these" and not other things....

[Ramasee]

At the end of the day, Chosen do not compete with Knights for spots in group. This statement removes the foundational work for the majority the argument of this thread.

Rather than focusing on how your "mirror" is better, you should focus on being competitive in group spot compositions; and then making sure that overall group compositions between the factions can end up with similar outputs.

This goes for every last "my mirror is better than me" threads.

Mumble mumble...look around, sm+kobs is better than ch +bo as fir now....

And even if i can add against the utterly broken you wot. . still it wont change that bring a kobs is like bring a ch+bg fused togheter plus a free group stacking heal buff ( in before any argument about requiring healing aura...that " heal" aura also regen ap contrary to chosen...).

Again chosen is slight underperforming and kobs still have stuff to nerf (and even utterly bad stuff to buff aswell, because im not bias).

Problem here is no one running balance sectiom to fix "these" and not other things....

I won't dispute your first sentence, but your statement also does not counter what I stated. It actually continues to follow the issue I highlighted. CHN/BO does not compete with KNT/SM for group spots, and they support different dps/healers.

You cannot take this class has this X tool, compare it to the class's mirror, and be like I'm weaker than them because of this one thing. There is not enough actual digging into the problems here and mostly just whining and bickering back and forth from I have read

[Tesq]

it dosetn really matter what you compete against,

if ab = cd realm are balanced
if ab > cd then realm are unbalanced it's pretty simple to get
if a =c+d
and add b to a then ab > cd

Spoiler:

kobs: bring anything chosen can bring on the table while also bring anything BG can bring.
meanwhile chosen dont do SM dmg in slighest, dont have a optimus dmg reduction skill like IB, nor have any defining 2h real skill anymore as rending blade serve no purpose with out any usefull debuff. We could elaborate more about most of tankes have either no viability either in s+b or 2h department when it came to either small scale or rvr.
the only realm diff is in rvr where chosen bring 1 aura kobs cant but it can pretty much be cauntered by an order super heal buff stacking with kobs+runy. Too many low grab fruit, all those tactics we all know well should had placed high in mastery and rest of mastery should had fixed according to this.

BG: lack of s+b for wb / s+b for sc is a very def support build which usually dont mesh well since well it is required to kill so the only way to have a s+b bg would have a very off 2h tank to balance it, even with BO it is not the case, it would require a SM copy to be synergied
Due this his right mastery is dead compared to how an ib can use its one.

Chosen: lack any 2h for rvr build , CD decrease and some fix to have 1 aoe skill on 5 sec cd could fix the prob. Chosen also have lots of high investiment problem while also IB does too while not have it that bad since his good stuff are all low in masterys.

IB: same chosen problem better sich due skills dispositions

SM: require phoenix wing to be made a perfect balance skill for unlock a core 2h rvr build for wb mostly the same way BO can do.

BO: 2h mastery panic button working better than s+b one and also with shield aswell........

to enable a viable aoe 2h build on all classes so that ppl can play what they like....
ch/IB need 2h aoe based on CD reduction
KOBS/BG need 2h aoe spam
SM/BO need 2h aoe on perfect balance both

to enable s+b to be viable in sc on par with 2h
kobs/chosen need their best form of super punt back on s+b, 2h can still have super punt but must be with a higher cd.
BG: it's more than viable but it's an alternative way to make your group with a tank so much focussed on dmg reduction on the whole group.
BO: need 3 hit combo back and you wot fixed to work instead only for 2h this will make able the trade more dmg for less group support(but nerf you wot regardless...)
IB: is alredy viable but present as his masterys are a joke; need buff 13 pt mid and toughness tactic in mid mastery while also get back its 2h 4sec KD back (which must came with a general ban of any low hang fruit masterys construction).

to enable a mor fair buff disposition:
kobs:
-need heal buff tactic put to 7-10%,
-need crit buff tied again to 1 aura (but not str one) which imo should be aoe dmg aura (this restric 1 aura more instead allow slot 1 always usefull aura); most likely if you go 2h build it indirectly prevent you due "critical choices" to not also include on your guard ( which is fine since you are not mid mastery mainly).
-need DT, FM and OS to be all put 11+1pt
-vigilance need to be 45% and dmg malus removed.
-unbalancing attack and whole right mastery requrie a redesign exept in common with chosen stuff...which is stag....and need an ap drop...and a lowered immunity
-sunfury ingore detaunt as BG tactic

[orillah]

Just nerf the knight already.

[Ototo]

(...)

Chosen is absolutely awful in present state. It does absolutely nothing but have auras to counter the kobs auras.
The str scaling from abilities is still pitiful, and the utility is non-existent. Auto attack is still your highest hitting attack, and that's mostly due to armor debuff from other classes.
The only spec worth a damn is stack avoidance, swap guard, punt the other tank, and eat paint chips.
Anyone who plays it seriously is an absolute fool.

((Sarcasm mode On))
It is such a bad class that you can never see one. Nobody wants to play it. You enter in an scenario and no destro tanks at all, way less a Chosen.
((Sarcasm mode Off))

Now, come on, are you freaking serious? 1 out of 6 destro players is a Chosen in most of the situations. There are literally more tanks in destruction realm than dwarves in Ekrund.

This post right here sums up why you should not be commenting on things you have no idea about. High quantity of X does not mean that X is good: just because you see a high quantity of Chosen players in pug environments means **** all because you also have an abundance of melee BWs, DPS WPs with 30% chance to be crit, WEs who pop on Cannons in the middle of a Zerg or quadruple-guarded healers...it's a poor argument people use when they have nothing else of substance to counter with.

Chosen offers auras to a 6-man... aaand that's about it: everything else he provides (KD, KB) can be provided by either the BO, or the BG, along with other group utility. Wasteland Ruse should never have been turned into some ghetto version of Runefang as it has simply exacerbated the state of Chosen in group play.

PS. The utter contempt with which you responded to Sleepy's comments is fascinating. Sleepy is one of the best tanks that I have ever played with, and has a track record for being impartial, given that he plays both realms in equal measure, so you would do well to show him a bit of respect, and regard his feedback with an ounce more consideration.

PPS. No doubt you'll report this post for bullying, villainising, racism or some other -ism, but sometimes, the truth needs to be spoken.

If you are allowed to comment AND harash ppl using PMs, I'm allowed to have, and share, my opinion. Only read first line, not worth to follow up. Coming from you, probalby a lot of subtle insults, ad hominem falliceies (AKA as insults that try to undermine other person opinion), and a lot of black-and-white fallacies (AKA if this happens, a catastrophe will happen).

Honestly, I would really like to ignore you forever, but sadly I'm not familiar enough with the forum to do so. Give me time.

[Jimsey0000]

This post right here sums up why you should not be commenting on things you have no idea about. High quantity of X does not mean that X is good: just because you see a high quantity of Chosen players in pug environments means **** all because you also have an abundance of melee BWs, DPS WPs with 30% chance to be crit, WEs who pop on Cannons in the middle of a Zerg or quadruple-guarded healers...it's a poor argument people use when they have nothing else of substance to counter with.

Chosen offers auras to a 6-man... aaand that's about it: everything else he provides (KD, KB) can be provided by either the BO, or the BG, along with other group utility. Wasteland Ruse should never have been turned into some ghetto version of Runefang as it has simply exacerbated the state of Chosen in group play.

PS. The utter contempt with which you responded to Sleepy's comments is fascinating. Sleepy is one of the best tanks that I have ever played with, and has a track record for being impartial, given that he plays both realms in equal measure, so you would do well to show him a bit of respect, and regard his feedback with an ounce more consideration.

PPS. No doubt you'll report this post for bullying, villainising, racism or some other -ism, but sometimes, the truth needs to be spoken.

Lol, never thought i'd see peter taking up for chosen. I was arguing with you on how inadequate they were back in early 2018, lol. You were wanting to keep the status quo of chosen inadequacy back then. What made you change your mind exactly? I find it ironic, given that with the toughness nerf DPS chosen is finally viable. As far as squishiness goes, lots of classes suffered from the toughness nerf as well as all the RDPS buffs. I just hope they don't change anything big on chosen, besides reverting things back to 2015 like crippling strikes, for instance. The guy with the chosen in his sig, seems to always want to radically change things about the class for some reason. We sure don't need a tactic, to make rending blade "undefendable" when it's ALREADY undefendable. That's a horizontal nerf; if there's one thing chosen absolutely do not need in any conceivable way, it's anything remotely resembling a nerf.

I remember when interrealm chat was still implemented, enemy groups in SCs constantly making fun of chosen with "Hey i know what you guys need... more chosen!" because of what garbage they were.

One thing i will disagree with you on peter, is the idea that classes that are overrepresented don't mean they're overpowered. See DPS AM.

Class overrepresentation, while not infallable, has always been a good indicator on how overpowered a particular class is. That's common knowledge not open for debate, in the MMORPG world, just FYI.
That's the reason you see tons of DPS AM here, you saw tons of bonedancers/archers/assassins in DAOC, and the reason you'd see tons of scourges/daredevils in GW2.

I was just on the daoc phoenix server a couple of months ago, they buffed dual wield by 20 percent, and gave warrior-like defense penetration to assassins. They also gave casters toa like damage and cast speeds, without the TOA being necessary. Guess which class archetypes are overrepresented on phoenix?

[qwerty113]

Yeah sure.. Lets Mirroring class'es, lets buff Destro more.. Why desrto always crying, but order just content with what they have