Engineer vs Magus crit tactic problem

[Panodil]

both classes are even. both on the last place ranking when it comes to dps

[Karast]

2.9k snipe is warcamp buff, or a level 15 in the lakes.

As a rr84 engi you are lucky to get a 1.5-2k on an armor debuff on a squishy bolster with coordinated fire up and full stacks.

The average crit for a snipe on an evenly gear squishy like a we / sorc / shaman is gonna be around 1.4-1.8k. That's with gutting your survivability for weaponskill. Endgame gear gives too much armor with pots. Our dps drops harder and harder with each new set. Squigs, mara's, doks, tanky armor tali healers, any kind of tanks will laugh off snipe unless you are double debuffing with a tank, or got a pocket wl for big debuff. It is not a joke to debuff a mara, bo, or dok and then crit on a snipe for under 1000. You eat 65-75% mitigation most of the time.

Similarly geared magus can crit anything that is not a def tank above 2k on BoC thanks to crit damage tactic and damage type. Even a buffed target is gonna be dropped to around 20-30% mitigation with your debuff, so you have less problems.

Physical ranged dps eats it hard since we lack a lot of built in armor ignores that melee get, even the new ability in rifle is a bit of a joke since the cooldown is so long. This isn't so much an engi problem since melee dps, some dps tanks, and other prdps are feeling it now too.

The only real advantage we get in place of magic damage is auto attack which is great against soft targets since it can add another 500-1k to that snipe for a big time stamp, but when you are mitigated into the ground by geared invader / bloodlord armor levels, or simply tank / dok / mara's with pots that AA is just as junk as snipe.

To sum it up:

Magus can go after whatever they want to great effect and they don't lose much when fighting higher geared enemies.

Engi you need to pick on lowbies, and squishes, or find a WL / IB to buddy up with.

And to anyone who thinks more WS is the answer. Get on any gutted prdps with 900 ws and try to dent a invader / bloodlord geared melee like a wl / mara or a dok / wp. It's not a fun time at all.

[RuffRyder]

Although the topic is derailing a bit here I can't resist to leave some comments, from Engineer PoV only that is.

While I agree with Karast on the (general) physical damage based ranged classes' problem of having to mitigate more and more armor with gear progression, and not having access to armor bypasses like melee dps, this is still due to less stacking of resists, which is by design not viable if you ask me.

BUT those complaints about critting with Snipe and about its damage are neither appropriate nor reasonable imho.
It comes down to target picking, and although we have access to Armor-Piercing Rounds, we are still not build to single-target down a heavy-armored enemy. You need to outsustain them - which can be tough with less kite potential than other classes - with Corporeal damage.
Stacking WS is debatable, even in our Sniper Squads we don't have a consensus about it, and personally I'm usually stacking only BS and achieve better results in both RvR and SCs.
Actually I would be really disapppointed if I wouldn't reach 2,x crits on Snipe on a regular basis, I guess Lesti wouldn't accept us for Sniper Squad if we didn't reach those numbers, lol.

Now to topic: I can follow OP's argument, but as Peter mentioned already it's on a position in a Mastery that's mostly used for Magnet specs, that usually don't need crit anyway. Combined with Rifleman - and only there - it gets most viable.

[Sulorie]

All those complaints about increasing armor levels on high level gear...seriously, the full set doesn't even add 100 additional armor compared to previeous tier and both are bad for most medium armor dps classes.

[Nidwin]

Can please someone explain me what that crit damage tactic for BoC actually is ?

[peterthepan3]

Similarly geared magus can crit anything that is not a def tank above 2k on BoC thanks to crit damage tactic and damage type. Even a buffed target is gonna be dropped to around 20-30% mitigation with your debuff, so you have less problems.

BoC doesn't benefit from Surging Power.

[Tankbeardz]

2.9k snipe is warcamp buff, or a level 15 in the lakes.

As a rr84 engi you are lucky to get a 1.5-2k on an armor debuff on a squishy bolster with coordinated fire up and full stacks.

The average crit for a snipe on an evenly gear squishy like a we / sorc / shaman is gonna be around 1.4-1.8k. That's with gutting your survivability for weaponskill. Endgame gear gives too much armor with pots. Our dps drops harder and harder with each new set. Squigs, mara's, doks, tanky armor tali healers, any kind of tanks will laugh off snipe unless you are double debuffing with a tank, or got a pocket wl for big debuff. It is not a joke to debuff a mara, bo, or dok and then crit on a snipe for under 1000. You eat 65-75% mitigation most of the time.

Similarly geared magus can crit anything that is not a def tank above 2k on BoC thanks to crit damage tactic and damage type. Even a buffed target is gonna be dropped to around 20-30% mitigation with your debuff, so you have less problems.

Physical ranged dps eats it hard since we lack a lot of built in armor ignores that melee get, even the new ability in rifle is a bit of a joke since the cooldown is so long. This isn't so much an engi problem since melee dps, some dps tanks, and other prdps are feeling it now too.

The only real advantage we get in place of magic damage is auto attack which is great against soft targets since it can add another 500-1k to that snipe for a big time stamp, but when you are mitigated into the ground by geared invader / bloodlord armor levels, or simply tank / dok / mara's with pots that AA is just as junk as snipe.

To sum it up:

Magus can go after whatever they want to great effect and they don't lose much when fighting higher geared enemies.

Engi you need to pick on lowbies, and squishes, or find a WL / IB to buddy up with.

And to anyone who thinks more WS is the answer. Get on any gutted prdps with 900 ws and try to dent a invader / bloodlord geared melee like a wl / mara or a dok / wp. It's not a fun time at all.

No it was on a 40 and no where near a Warcamp. Honestly...warcamp buff gives you way more than double unless it has changed recently.

You are talking your **** again...I can tell you, without a doubt, engi is in a better spot than magus on this server. It has better morale options (concealment/cannon smash), better tactic options (hollow points, stoutness of stone, concussive mine, ancestral inheritance), and better build options than a magus (core finisher that can be used in any build and doesn't cost a spec point). Sure, you don't hit tanks as hard...boo hoo.

As far as engi dps biting it on armored targets...you realize that ST magus can only debuff its biggest burst abilities via pet, just like an engi with an armor debuff, right? Engi mid and right trees are all corp that can be spam debuffed. Magus right tree is split between elemental and spirit.

The new ability is definitely not a joke but you are probably right about the CD being a bit too high. Once you hit BS soft cap, there is almost zero benefit to going anywhere other than WS (unless you are stacking wounds). Why play off the auto-attack which hits like an extra proc? This all adds up to FASTER BURST. Faster burst means you can contribute more to a fight before the fight moves away from you and that is huge. Engi can mostly keep up with other classes that have sprints/pounces, but magus trails far behind.

Honestly, how well do you know even know the magus class?

[Karast]

Screw it. These forums are a pit. There really is no reason in talking truth or giving honest perspectives. It's just 90% **** posters and trolls.

It takes 5 min on an end game engi fighting a well geared enemy to find the problem.

[peterthepan3]

Just wanted to correct your statement re BoC benefitting from crit damage tactic, but if that's 'trolling' in your books, then so be it.

Easier to keep your head in the sand.

[abodam]

Just wanted to correct your statement re BoC benefitting from crit damage tactic, but if that's 'trolling' in your books, then so be it.

Easier to keep your head in the sand.

Stop being correct, its so 2018.
Nerf magus I say! Such a menace of a class.