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Patch Notes 04/01/2020

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3769

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#171 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:12 am

CountTalabecland wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:51 am
Manatikik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:29 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:50 pm

Melee SH want something similar too, because they want to land their cd increaser more reliable as well. This really is no convincing argument for rampage. :)
There's tons of convincing arguments for Rampage, they're all just for nerfing it.
Rampage is fine as is and does not need to be nerfed/given to destro. Slayer is slow, has 1 reliable snare and one meh exhaustive snare. Other than that it has no means of getting to an opponent or holding them by it except for exhaustive knockdown. Yes Slayer has a good tool that destro doesnt have, but it also has its own severe drawbacks, this is how the game was designed and it is fine as is. No need to “fix it.”
Your argument is that slayer dosnt have much to keep targets in melee range while order is overflowing in CC and snares?
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Morghane
Posts: 11

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#172 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:22 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:42 pm
TenTonHammer wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:29 pm

The concept that ALL CLASSES need to have a warband spec is not one supported by the team, that's propagated elsewhere. Some classes shine in smallscale and suck in warbands. That's life. Pick your battles.

And this ideology that all classes shouldn't or dosnt need be viable at every level of play, that when you pick and invest a class that we should expect our experince to be restricted on some level (yet this is not true for all classes since their is some who are viable at every level of play)

Is a fundamentally flawed one and in turn has resulted in you guys creating overtuned specs like ASW whose power is "justified" by being crap in orvr

the fact that the devs have unilaterally held beliefs like this and cannot be inputted up by the wider community as a whole because were not part of the dev team so our opinions cant be concerned with
That ideology comes from elsewhere, it's not like we said we were going to do a thing and then did the opposite.
The observation that some classes suck and shine depending on situation is an objective statement, not a unilateral hardline position we've taken.
The "wider community" is a strawman that you can't possibly represent with your hot take.
We do absorb opinions from the community, whether or not we absorb YOUR opinions (a broadly inclusive YOUR, as in anyone who feels their specific opinions are being ignored) is barely a factor of concern. Not only are we limited in the amount of things we're going to change at any given time, whining that we didn't use YOUR specific model for changes, or YOUR timeline for changes, or changed X before changing ABCDEFG, is so wildly narcissistic I can't imagine how you function outside of realms in your own explicit control.
It is exceedingly rare to agree with any single point of specific feedback, but it's still taken into consideration. Because we read things. We talk about things. We're not blindly ignorant to the thoughts and feelings of players in-game or on the forums. It's like we're normal humans with very human processes and thoughts, and ability to retain information and make complex analytical decisions that factor in many different things as the end output can only be one thing, and we have to make the best of the factors that we consider. Crazy right?
Well spoken indeed.

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 598

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#173 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:33 pm

Spoiler:
TenTonHammer wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:12 am
CountTalabecland wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:51 am
Manatikik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:29 pm


There's tons of convincing arguments for Rampage, they're all just for nerfing it.
Rampage is fine as is and does not need to be nerfed/given to destro. Slayer is slow, has 1 reliable snare and one meh exhaustive snare. Other than that it has no means of getting to an opponent or holding them by it except for exhaustive knockdown. Yes Slayer has a good tool that destro doesnt have, but it also has its own severe drawbacks, this is how the game was designed and it is fine as is. No need to “fix it.”
Your argument is that slayer dosnt have much to keep targets in melee range while order is overflowing in CC and snares?
Well yes since the class itself has pretty much nothing. Getting into good position as a Slayer requires group coordination and a tank and healer on your back. Especially compared to MSH. Why does the destro cooldown increaser class need to have all the cc that it has when destro has so many snares, knockbacks, and pulls? By your logic, a class's abilities should be strictly tempered by what the rest of the realm has? Sure makes sense to give Choppa pull in that case when the ST and AoE pull were already present in the destro arsenal since Choppa had soooo many other ways to get in melee range from other classes.

Point being, the fact that other classes on the same realm have good cc does not mean that Slayer should necessarily be robbed of its one spec with a utility ability.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/81) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Gangan
Posts: 550

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#174 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:43 pm

Pächter des Wahnsinns
Gangan - SH 50+ Blumnmoscha - BO 63
Scophis - Zealot 61 Drengur - WP 64
Iznogoud - Sham 40+ Bixo - Engie 50+
Apogemoth - Magus 40+
originating from Drakenwald

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Wdova
Posts: 542
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Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#175 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:14 pm

Messed up a bit with again nerfed Kobs. Cripled runefang which now isnt core tactic and specable is one of the worst ideas ever to this class. Kobs just dont want core elemental damage conversion with 15% incoming damage. No way! To be honest Kotbs dont want to deal elemental damage in general. Why is that? As kobs You attack softies (healers, rdps). Softies has lower absorption from armor than from rezistances + Beastlsord set gives You big flat armor reduction on proc. This proc + reasonable weapon skill level can negate armor absorption much more than elemental damage conversion + 188 rezistance debuff from rezist aura. Yes non physical damage helps a little bit(not such a huge difference) with attacking of armor stacked deftards (Marauders, all tanks), but You dont want to attack them, maybe when every other enemy is dead. As kobs You want harras, CC healers and punt tanks from theyr guarded teammates.

I know changes are experimental, but I hope You realized You further criple already cripled tank. This changes are not necesary and doesnt bring any positive effect.

Edit: removing weapon skill from runefang proc means 1) less parry for tank 2) less damage with physical attack. Kobs is already the worst damage dealer tank in game. Why making him even worster is beyond my understandings.
Pigbutcher - Choppa RR80+

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satanicomoderno
Posts: 120

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#176 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:27 am

Jastojan wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:39 pm
satanicomoderno wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:37 pm
And Order gets more nerf as usual. Nothing to see here. RIP Kotbs.
here we go... all players are blind when it comes to "their" fraction...
No matter how strong is your class compared to the opposite class. No matter how strong is your side. When you see your side is getting to be more optimized to get fractions more balanced, it is HUGE nerf in your eyes. I played destro mostly and my chars were nerfed many times... Mara, SH... should I cry now?

I quit playing this game because of few reasons (toxicity and behaviour of few (one especially) highest ranked players, some big changes like aoe cap, forts, etc.) but I was thinking about going back to the game... but I cant do it because, yes, there is an imbalance in this game and players will ALWAYS complain and I cant go through it (I had time to think about it and see it clearer and when you see GMs playing one side mostly, it could make you feel... not very happy when you hope there will come some real balance changes in the future). And it was a good decision to quit because I dont want to brake their vision of the game. This game is a gem, but it is not for everyone (like me). As Wargrimmir wrote in this thread - balance changes will bring big wave of hate and it will be realy hard to make decent changes while you (as a dev) are being hated. I hope devs will have patience with all the changes they planned and wish them to have power to make this game much better - I LOVED solo ranked scenarios and it was such a nice idea to make better rewards for win in these rankeds - just example. But I see now, that if I stay and play the game right now, I will become that type of person I never wanted to be. I cant imagine how hard is it to make big decisions here and explain changes to the players etc. So I decide to accept the game as it is and leave it, because it is not for me. That is my point of view.


Lets put it in practice: A kotbs receive 20% more damage of all sources. A chocen receives 20% less healing. It means that a chosen will only be penalized by this debuff if they have a healer, he will keep being a tank with it's defenses, a kotbs will ALWAYS receive more damage doesn't matter what, with healer of without. Is it clear for you?

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Detangler
Posts: 421

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#177 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:31 am

Are you guys stating KotBS does the lowest damage on order side, or even worse damage than the chosen? Cause I sure see a lot of flaming 2h swords in oRvR and not a bunch of 2h chosen players (that are taken seriously anyways. Theres always a few lowbies that like to experiment...)
Detangler - 40 DoK armor talisman farmer
Deetangler - 40/82 Chosen tankbot/murdermachine
Deeetangler - 40/6x Zealot healbot/talisman factory
Detanglerr - 40/xx Witch Elf boredom killer
Deetsquiggy - 40/x Squig butcherbot
Tanglers - baby Swordmaster

anarchypark
Posts: 1642

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#178 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:41 am

what a shitstorm of whines.
come back after tests.
feedback without tests have zero value, despite how great you think your opinions are.

how many chosens actually used Daemonclaw?
most of forum posts about it were how useless it was.
in fact, it was good str buff on dps 2h.
easy to apply with undefendable aoe.
offensive style on offensive tree.

feedback should start from there, how it changed. i think only handful chosens are qualified.
if you hadn't used daemonclaw b4, test twice to get enough data.

so come back after 7days of tests.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL5, KoBS5, BW4, WP8, WH4, IB5, EG4, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH4, Shm5, Chop3
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

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Alfa1986
Posts: 438

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#179 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:28 am

you need just not write about changing classes in the patch list))(only about very large). I am sure that most players would not even have guessed about + 20-20%, maybe someone would ask for a month after a month, that's all. =))
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

stavoz
Posts: 9

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#180 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:20 pm

fix forts please contribution system is not working properly :D - ported out of shining way with reservation, ported out of stonewatch when taking a flag, receiving reservation after the fort has finished (lol), unable to run through reikwald to other zones (forts) portal when reikwald fort is open.

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