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Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

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Wyvernblade
Posts: 12

Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#1 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:43 am

I am so sick and tired of hearing it. People screaming and crying to let the other side win zone so we can go to easy Fort defense and get 4 Invaders. This game needs to support and promote OFFENSE. Getting 1 Invader for taking a zone and preventing enemy from going to Fort is a good start, but it's not enough to stop people from losing on purpose to get 4 Invaders. Stopping the enemy from taking the keep leading to a zone lock and then taking their keep should reward more.... maybe 3 or 4 Invaders... maybe higher Renown tic... maybe more bag rolls. Something to reward Realm Pride.

The lockout has helped greatly by preventing people from Xrealming.

Now we need something to better reward those who fight to defend and then go on the offense to win.

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Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#2 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:34 am

This has been going for way too long. If you don't like the mechanics, there are scenarios for you. The game must not promote anything, it has to create a sandbox space where strategies can be developed and used, all of them not only the ones you like.

Next time tell them that they may loss the fort and get nothing. That may activate them.
Spoiler:

havartii
Posts: 115

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#3 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:22 am

The flip side to this idea is one side has double the numbers, why should we feed them more renown and medallions? We can try and rally troops for the fort defence that may have more even numbers.

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Lithenir
Posts: 140

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#4 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:37 am

Tbh the current RvR System doesn't support the idea of defending zones. Locking is simply too easy. You can go to 2 stars in what? Like 5 or 10 minutes if you really want to. So when defenders cannot come in keeps real quick to set up a defense or if they are just heavily outnunmbered, there is nothing they can do. And after the keep is fallen? Well attackers need to hold just 3 BOs for the unbelievable difficult time of 45 seconds. Not many options to at least slow attackers down.

I understand the attitude of wanting to defend, as I want too but it's just not really possible unless you have the numbers advantage. Sadly also the attitude of most players is "let's go easy mode instead of working for it".

I like the idea of reversing the rewards. So succesfull endzone lock should be rewarded with 4 Invader and successfull fort defense with only 2. Maybe this could change something.

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Kwatchi
Posts: 64

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#5 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:42 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:37 am
I like the idea of reversing the rewards. So succesfull endzone lock should be rewarded with 4 Invader and successfull fort defense with only 2. Maybe this could change something.
While I agree with the sentiment (cuz in my pug Order WB this morning (NA time) in Eataine, I watched half wait at the Shining Way border after we lost the keep), I think this would just hurt the grossly outnumbered side who can’t possibly defend a Keep anyway. Tack on less incentive to defend a Fort, that will simply lead to less interest and PvDoor. Getting steamrolled for 20 min for 4 pity Invader isn’t worth it to a lot of vets already.

No easy answer to people really. Unless the Devs try something drastic like an extra bolster in Keep defence when AAO hits 100+ so the fights are semi competitive, we are going have to live with a high pop Destro cakewalking Keeps and Forts for the foreseeable future.
Slayer - 40/7x
Archmage - 40/68

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 497

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#6 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 pm

I agree with losing the zone to go to fort. I want to get Invader and I don’t have a lot of time to play. So if I log in and the warzone is T2, ik I will not make any progress toward Invader today so play scens or log an alt or log off.

If it is T4 and in midzone then there is a chance but only if we end the zone soon so lock quick either way.

However if we are in pre-fort zone defending, yes there is no point winning a defense for 1 medallion when I could get 4 and a bag roll from winning fort. The only reason I am trying in the pre-fort zone is for contribution for fort.

And before ppl come at me with the “dont play only for gear” bullshit, I don’t mind playing without rewards when I get to BiS, it is only that when I am trying to gear a character, I would like the play time I have show some, any, even a little progress toward that goal. Is that really as evil as ppl make it out to be? How about 1 Invader medallion for rr 65+ per zonelock regardless win/lose or which zone would even be enough.

Better yet, give my 800+ useless Vanquisher medallions a purpose. Let me buy Invader with them at a ridiculous ratio of like 100 for 1. Give non-fort zones a purpose. You should be able to contribute towards ORvR by playing ORvR, not random luck on where the war is at when you log in.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/77) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

Samejima
Posts: 42

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#7 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:41 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 pm
You should be able to contribute towards ORvR by playing ORvR, not random luck on where the war is at when you log in.
This is a problem with game design, and it will be highlighted further once City is released. Having gear progression linked to campaign progression is an interesting idea in principle but it incentivizes anti-fun/anti-competitive behavior (i.e., sandbagging, players opting out of oRVR/logging off if no fort happening soon, etc.) and due to the narrow windows involved in Fort/City it has the potential to leave a lot of people out, as you've noted.

I suppose the PVE/SC sets may provide possible alternatives?

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zgolec
Suspended
Posts: 562

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#8 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:46 pm

Make last zone - if defended - give inv meds. No bags just meds and it will be worth a shot to even try def...

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Haskr
Posts: 381

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#9 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:07 pm

zgolec wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:46 pm
Make last zone - if defended - give inv meds. No bags just meds and it will be worth a shot to even try def...
You get 1 Invader medallion for succesfully defending the last zone as of now I believe.

Sarnai
Posts: 85

Re: Let them win zone so we can defend Fort!

Post#10 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:34 am

Linking zone rewards with invader drops will always cause people to not defend whatever zone comes before it. If pre-fort zones become 4 meds, 'let them win CW so we can defend fort' becomes 'let them win Praag so we can defend CW' and so on and so on. It's in the average person's nature to take the path of least resistance.

Make invader medals random oRVR drops from killing high RR characters, and perhaps in fort gold bags (just medals, not full set pieces.) You can't game the RNG, and if it's between suffering the wrath of the RNGods or suffering the anti-competitive behavior of gear farmers, personally I'd take the former.

Just my two cents. Nobody's system is going to make everyone happy.
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