SM Vaul tempering/BO We'z bigger

[Meenex]

Hi,

Before to write anything, read this: This discussion is not to insult the person who designed the game. They work hard and I have a great respect for what they do. The goal here is to search a useful thing to change this blessing/enchanting. Second thing, sorry about my language. I am french player, so try to be comprehensive plz.

I have only a SM, so I post here to have the opinion of SM and BO player. The blessing/enchanting is the same. And if we find something useful, I will try to publish something more official.

About the SM Vaul tempering/BO We'z bigger actually: You and your groupmate withing 30 feet are immune to crown control effects and reduce incoming damage for 3 second by 10%. 20 sec cooldown.

Do you think if the ability was: Your groupmate (excluding you) withing 30 feet reduce incoming damage for 10 second by 10%. (20 sec cooldown and shield only) It would be better?

I said that because SM in vault tree is enough durable but he lack of utility stuff. I cannot talk for Black Ork with Path of Da' Toughest. So sacrifice some personnal durability (excluding you for the damage reduction) for utility (10 sec reduction incoming damage by 10% is good when you are under pressure). I think it is a good trade.

And the remove of immune to crown control is because it would be too strong if the ability have 10 sec duration.

Thank you in advance for your feedback!

[wonshot]

Vauls Tempering got massively redused a while back:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=28414

Without giving us much of a reason as to why, but when it got buffed previously the wording was:

Point was raised that having a balance requirement AND a cast time on Vaul's Tempering was excessive and prevented using the ability on reaction.

in this set of patchnotes: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=28062

Now if this, unused, ability is still meant as a reactionary ability it could really do with either a bit longer range(50feet range?), OR 1-2 sec longer group CC immunity.
I am super careful of not suggesting something really overtuned on this ability as it could be dangerously good for 6v6. But for largescale abilities like Magus Rift has since then been tuned back so it no longer have a 1sec delay, like Engineer Electromagnet now has. Footage of the actual comparison: https://clips.twitch.tv/GlamorousBovineWerewolfBatChest

This makes a reactionary ability with 1-2Goblacooldown requirements close to impossible to use, as a reactionary ability and instead the player now has to predict which is not only way harder but also defeats the purpose of this ability.

With Crowcontrol abilities now affecting up to 24players with the increased AOE cap. Having a tiny buff to either the range or duration of the crowcontrol in this ability + Black orc version would help as a finetuneing step to previous adjustments.

[Meenex]

Wow Wonshot, you impress me seriously ! I did know these ability have some change in the past but not like that. If I understand, the problem is the developer try to have the right duration of the crowncontrol immunity. Thats why they change the duration in the past. Interessting. I can understand it can be hard to know the right duration. And I respect that.

But in the same time, I have a SM and I have pressure sometime in that WB to use WW in the place of Vaul Tempering. I cannot talk about BO if that have the same kind of problem. And I check many post about that ability to try to know if I am the only 1 who want to add i little buff to that ability. I am happy to see i am not the only 1.Thats why I create this post to know what is going on with that enchantement/blessing.

I see a topic here: viewtopic.php?t=31005
Some person wanted to change the duration of the ability, but I think the person who designed the game have already think of that. That why I want to think outside the box. And I would like to see some person who can think like that too.

Question: I know I can post somewhere to talk to the developper about ability. Any one know where i can post?

[Meenex]

I think of another idea. The ability itself is hard to cast it need to cast at the exact time before your group receive crowncontrol ability. Because the ability itself is not like a juggernaut. It cannot break the crowncontrol of the team receive.

For my point of view, we have 2 path for modify that:

First path: You and your groupmate withing 30 feet are immune to crown control effects 1 second and break rooting, snaring, disarming and silencing effect. 1 min cooldown / shield requirement / perfect balance. It is like group juggernaut. It is easy to place in the middle of battle and it cannot be OP by a too long time of crowncontrol immunity. It is possible to modify that like lesser cooldown but you need to hit the enemy.

Second path: If it is so hard to determine the good timing of crown control immunity. Just remove that like my first posting: Your groupmate (excluding you) withing 30 feet reduce incoming damage for 10 second by 10%. (20 sec cooldown / shield only / perfect stance). No tank have that ability.

What do you think ?

[Aurandilaz]

I wish midtree were more useful, but it is not.
Your other tree has 13pts WW for big utility, other 13 has ED for the dmg. Midtree does not compare well to either one of those choices.
The bottom 2 tactics are nice, as well as 2 lowest abilities are IMO worth picking if your plan it maximize own survival. But above 9 pts, nah, nope. You need to go for WW if you want to bring value as a tank to a group.

IF, and thats a big massive if, the ability had something like 3s total CC immunity and on a 10s CD, or 5/15, then it might be considered alongside WW utility.
I mean you could probably go as warband tank and skip everything in midtree as it is now, and then get some minor extra pressure potential by going left+right (dps tree giving more statsteal potential + Phoenix Wing less AP cost if your task is to spread debuffs with meagre AoE spam), and go for more meleetrain assist potential alongside some dps you anyway pocketguarding. Midtree utility is mostly for "me and myself and my own defences" - just giving bit more block/parry and another absorb (in case you dont have enough layers of absorbs) - which is perfectly fine in many situations, but the right tree with group absorb and group cd reducer and KD is where really want to put those mastery points, and remainder can then be put into mid.

[xanderous]

Thanks to the changes the skill now is weak sauce and honestly should either be deleted and replaced with something else or modified and put down lower in the tree as no right minded borc player is ever going to invest 14 points for this ability that now lasts 3s with a 20s cooldown.