The Level 16+ Experience on the Server

[adamthelc]

My new player experience is that rvr feels very unrewarding. From t2 up it seems very much like gw2 wvw where you run around for 90 % of the time and then zerg or get zerged. I did 20 scenarios today and as destro we won 2 so thats 10 % win chance. The quest reward for winning is nice xp boost but locking most of the "reward" behind it is strange, especially how critical the first offensive feels in many scenarios. If you havent won by the first minute, the chances go down very fast after that. Pve is as was standard for games from this era, tedious. This is a private server for an old game so I dont know how much I can complain, but still theres some reason why you have wanted new players in this game and this is my experience.

The game doesnt really get that much different at 40. I have Lots of max level and high renown characters. I like playing mid tier characters as much or more than max level. The problem is mindset, people feel like they have to rush through the game instead of enjoy it.

Not everyone will keep playing this game. There is no change to leveling that will make that not true.

[Dancyn]

^ this


2008 mmo market is different than now, people don't want very slow progress especially now. People want to hit big levels fast like in BDO or Guild wars 2 and not get 1 hit killed, many will come after lazy peon review, if the game could at least adapt the XP boost. Combat is still very outdated and some people will drop just because of that for sure, you can't fight that but you can increase RvR XP by 100% or 200% for a start.

We are not boosting XP rates to join the current age of MMO's. We're happy to see new people coming in, but in the end the expectation is really around retaining the players who get hooked on the core gameplay loop. If missing out on super fast modernized leveling is a deal breaker for you, we totally understand.

It sounds like you're still very new and not aware of how to take advantage of the bolster system in RvR. There's learning to be done, and you can certainly be competitive in the 16-39 range of levels. Pushing you faster to 40 doesn't solve being able to learn and adapt to systems to have the most advantage from them.

The game can create it's own unique experience by allowing people to level just as fast in PVP, it doesn't have to "copy" superewarding leveling in other MMOS like guild wars 2. Also, how does bolstering compare to guild wars 2 WvW where the difference between super-easy to get exotics and engame gear is maxium 14%? If bolstering is as good as you portray (Can you be more effective while being bolestered than people in full conqueror+ gear? how big is the % stat gap to people rr80?)

It still doesn't answer my point why in RvR game you're better off leveling on pve, unless you want to spend weeks in farming scenarios, which is still not nearly as stable as pve leveling. It is not just an complaint for this private server, it is a complaint for the game in general. It was promoted on RvR forever, endless battles, WAAAGH, just no experience for it.

[Scottx125]

It's a pvp game. It's always been an issue in this game.. Back in the official, you'd just tp your new character and someone from guild would power level u to 40 in a day. Or farm skaven veterans for hours alone.. Recommending people to grind on mobs and farm PVE gear in a massive pvp game just indicates the game has an poor XP/rr reward system in the first place. You SHOULD be leveling faster through PVP in a PVP game, if the game wants to be so special about its pvp. Too bad almost none of the MMO's get it.

You shouldn't be able to level faster through PVE in a PVP game. I've no idea why there's not a huge increase in both XP and renown at least till 40, it would make things way more smooth, especially since there is no t2-t3 RvR, you get stomped in T4 as low lvl newbie (despite stat boost, gear leap is big)


edit.

As someone who wants to play up to 20 hours a week max, i wont grind mobs because it's boring, i won't always find a group to do perfect scenarios, and i won't stay this weekend all day. What i will do is RvR, and since this was always the best, most promoted part of this game, giving it the least amount of XP was always a big "?" for me. Huge majority of the spiked players will probably be more or less casual like me, who just want to have fun with PvP and maybe mix things up later.

I'm not saying you should, and yes it's PVP FOCUSED. But it still has a PVE element. And yes it's boring but IMO. The heart and soul of this game lies in organised RVR. And you won't really be able to participate in that effectively till you are level 40 with all your abilities and ruin/beastlord gear, regardless of rank renown.
Yes rank renown is very useful, but when you're at 40 you'll be gaining several levels of rank renown in an hour, so I wouldn't worry about it. A perfect example is my guild WB tonight destroyed FMJ because all of their players are low level. And trust me when I say it's not fun getting destroyed in T4 RvR when you're level 20.

[geezereur]

A little tip when the double xp is coming, do alot of quests now and turn them in when double xp is on.
Also i wish they return the skaven in t2+t3 so you can lvl up faster,
or maybe always have double xp on in your racial zone pve quests for T2-T3.

[Zarenthar]

I don't want to "rush" the game, I just want to play it as intended. This game offers one thing and one thing only over any other on the market and it's RvR. The appeal of this game is explicitly to PvP throughout the leveling process so if I get **** on and kicked repeatedly for being level appropriate and exactly where I should be it's a problem. I know it's probably difficult to balance things in order to offer a good experience throughout but if that can't be done to a satisfactory extend in terms of new player progression might as well build the game around lvl 40 and be done with it.

[Dancyn]

A little tip when the double xp is coming, do alot of quests now and turn them in when double xp is on.
Also i wish they return the skaven in t2+t3 so you can lvl up faster,
or maybe always have double xp on in your racial zone pve quests for T2-T3.

Skaven grind had that fun element of fighting for the best spot to farm, mixing PVP with PVE, same with land of the dead

[EsthelielSunfury]

It's currently not any kind of fun or balance (with or w/o bolster) to be precisely where you're supposed to be. 16-40 is an incredibly unfair bracket that makes no sense. You do paper damage even with Scout gear and rank 16s in every slot, while you get basically 2 shot in return.

Maybe it made sense to have to 16-40 back then, but that's no longer the case with zones being so dense you can barely play the game without fps loss.

I wouldn't suggest locking 40s out of content, I know most here would never accept that - but at least lock the zones for 4, maybe 8 hours before unlocking them for 40s to get into T2 and T3. Keep them 16-39 for 8 hours and let whoever is there to fight instead of everything being zergs where the only thing you can do is AoE tag them in hopes to farm renown, because your damage is certainly anything but balanced.

[Sulorie]

It's currently not any kind of fun or balance (with or w/o bolster) to be precisely where you're supposed to be. 16-40 is an incredibly unfair bracket that makes no sense. You do paper damage even with Scout gear and rank 16s in every slot, while you get basically 2 shot in return.

When looking at the gear of 90% of new players, I heavily doubt, that the gear is appropriate for your rank or optimized at all, when you claim to die in 2 hits. I guess its exaggerated to make a point.

Your appropriate progression would be to leave T1 and do sc for some ranks to get at least to rank 20. I actually have only made sc and only did a bit rvr at lvl28 to get currency for devastator set. I use -xp scroll, because leveling via sc would be too fast, as they have raised the xp gains on sc. You can do a lot to ensure, that you win almost all sc.

[Dodo1982]

It is already too late but locking T2 for newbies and leaving lv 40 to play just on pro Tiers could have outbalanced the population across the map. The mechanic you have now in place was fine for steady 500 low ppl population when it didn't make any sense to spread it across all the Tiers. Now after Peon's video there was huge wave of returning and new players, who had really horrible experience in rvr after T1. This is why many including myself made just alts to remain in T1. Auto balancing the armour and lv ratio doesn't work at all if new player lv 20 fights veteran lv 40. All of my friends who touched and fell in love with this game could not catch up with the zerging rush in T2-T3 and were not ready to jump right away to T4. Because of this reason we did mostly PvE and scenarios, which is a shame. As we see the numbers declined again because many new players found it unbalanced (unfair) and quit. I saw a great effort from the management team, they have run so many stress tests, upgraded server, but why wasn't anything done to shield new player's experience at least in T2? This way they could roam do PQs and test their skills in siege against their equal instead serving as confidence food for veteran players on full sets.

[Sulorie]

Just have seen a healer lvl23 with duelist set and healweapon and lvl2 jewel among other t1 jewels. Guess what that player does wrong.

It's like some people never ask themselves, whether the items they use are appropriate. They don't heal much, die a lot and still never ask in /advice for guidelines.