[Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

[VkdswWH]

and i forget) when you switch stance to brut you automatically lose your monstro stance buff)

[mursaat1337]

i still feel that there needs more damage in brut spec(like maybe 4%) in comparison to other archtype dps. for the reason that WL still has higher ST burst than WH which is a class based on ST damage kinda seems to still have that feelsbadman vibe.

losing the whole utility of mara and putting a bandaid on it by a dmg buff may seem like its doing something but now mara's need chop fasta from choppas to stance dance without cd and rotate morale drains. is that really a skillcap increase or a way to give mara players carpal tunnel? we gain wave of terror and lose wrecking ball which imo might be just a play style difference but feels like a dps loss.

another problem is that since warlord's mdps set bonus ap drains, once everyone gets their play style up, youre gonna see slow games of people just ap draining the crap out of eachother and since mara cannot spec into ap and morale drain anymore, there is no difference from order to destro in warband play. i thought a lot of people were against the mirror matching? out of all the screen shots from my alliance, order always has the higher avaerage dmg throughput and the way we win is basically surviving the clash and draining them out and just out lasting and controlling the fight vs order's damage lord pounce on a healer meta which is brainless.

now since morale drain has been changed, i feel like this nerf was literally because order was frustrated about low skillcap beating them rather than figuring out how to change their tactics and target strat in warband play. also that mara's utility gets nerfed and damage buffed but why are other classes still having the best of both worlds? just makes no sense how destro cries about WL stacking meta and nothing gets changed about it when it is a problem but then order cries about a few limp damage maras just using their utility toolkit and suddenly its a problem? control meta vs damage lords, and this nerf just gave more power to the damage lords.

it feels like im ranting, maybe? but i do appreciate that something is changing rather than nothing at all, so thanks for at least going to the drawing board. just trying to be humble.

just my 2 cents on the matter.

edit: what happen to mutated aggressor suppose to being 30 seconds to match that of aSW? or did that just get left off the chopping block?

[roadkillrobin]

The Mara Morale drain changes gonna make AM's super OP.

Boost BW's to M3 (to give some Morale headroom in case immune Mara) while behind cover. Kotbs run up and Stagger, BW's run in and drop R&D. Remember, Destro need to be attacking to boost Morales, AM's do it with healing spell that can give Morale progression while entire warband is in cover as long as they can stay in combat.

If you play this right, a Order warband will be opening with a Morale drop in most fights.

[gerard86]

can anyone explain the difference in morale drain last time vs now please thanks.

[R3xz]

can anyone explain the difference in morale drain last time vs now please thanks.

Please read the first post, I explained the difference there.

[Grock]

I'm a bit concerned about 50% increase on Wrecking Ball and 233% increase on Wave of Terror, those two are going to hurt a lot now, especially considering Marauders can use 50% crit damage tactic and 50% armor penetration tactic together.

I have a feeling dps marauders could make Choppas irrelevant after this change.
If that happens, then Bright Wizard meta will become even stronger, because Monstro proc makes Maras completely immune to armor penetration, turning Slayer damage output into a joke

My wrecking ball is hitting for 250 to 300 on average, which is actually underperforming compared to Retribution or Whirlwing Axe. Wave of Terror is hitting for 450 to 600 on average which is okay damage wise but cooldown should be reduced to 5s. Can't say yet if cd reducers should work or not as it's too early to say how effective Wave of Terror actually is.

Choppas are still going to deal 2 times as much damage, but at least now maras aren't going to be outdamaged by 2h Black Orcs on the average.

Savagery and Monstrosity are now both in a competitive and healthy shape. Sadly that can't be said about Brutality which hasn't moved out of the trashbin just yet.

I checked Whirling Axe and Slashing Blade on my White Lion and scaling on both of them are the same as pre-nerf Wrecking Ball and Demolition. If there's was difference between them it was only from rank/mastery damage part.

Now that Mara got a buff WL's AoE damage output is strictly worse. On top of that Mara can use crit dmg tactic, better armorpen tactic and some good options for the 4th tactic as well.
Don't forget WA/WB hit twice a second so its 500-600 dps which is actually higher than no-rage no-reflect Retribution/Bring-it-On (my Retri hits for 461 per second with 13pt mastery, ~1020 strength and double Subj weapons)

In my defence i never really tested scaling on aoe abilities for Slayer, so i didn't realize how big of a difference there was.

Some interesting points i noticed when testing things today
- Wave of Terror scaling is now higher than Slayer's Wild Swing (1.75 vs 1.5)
- Wrecking Ball now has almost the same scaling as BW's Annihialte (0.33 for two hits vs 0.69* for one hit)

Just keep in mind please that im talking purely about stat/dps scaling aka 'PSM', not about the total damage output of a class which is also subject to class mechanic (slayer Rage, bw Crits).

AoE Marauder class mechanic (Monstro proc) is strictly defensive and that means the damage output should never be anywhere near the same level as Choppa/Slayer or BW/Sorc - because those classes either sacrifice defences or harm themselves to get that damage output.
Maybe a tactic that changes Monstro proc from defensive to offensive boost could be an option?

___
* - numbers from ingame testing aren't super accurate, it might be 0.7

[TenTonHammer]

Some interesting points i noticed when testing things today
- Wave of Terror scaling is now higher than Slayer's Wild Swing (1.75 vs 1.5)
- Wrecking Ball now has almost the same scaling as BW's Annihialte (0.33 for two hits vs 0.69* for one hit)

Even with that scaling i think that they still have the advantage in dps output do to beserk and combustion mechanics

[Grock]

Even with that scaling i think that they still have the advantage in dps output do to beserk and combustion mechanics

Yes, obviously. Its just scaling, not even mentioning base/rank damage part.

We get damage mehanic with defensive trade-offs on top, mara gets armor pen immunity and nice self-heal, i think its fair.
A tactic to change monstro proc into some form dps boost would be interesting though, what you think?

[wachlarz]

Even with that scaling i think that they still have the advantage in dps output do to beserk and combustion mechanics

Yes, obviously. Its just scaling, not even mentioning base/rank damage part.

We get damage mehanic with defensive trade-offs on top, mara gets armor pen immunity and nice self-heal, i think its fair.
A tactic to change monstro proc into some form dps boost would be interesting though, what you think?

Rly ? So who will ever play sava or brut ?

[satanicomoderno]

What can I say? Have fun destro!

Meanwhile, Order still being ignored or nerfed. GG!

Buffs goes to squigs, magus, chosens, marauders and thats it! Buff Sorcs too, its too weak, poor sorcs!

Next week, WL nerf. Echoing roar is too strong omg, it makes the crybabies of destro ragequit and spam your QQ on Forum.