Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

[Mordd]

Imagine having input from a professional who has worked on some very well respected and regarded games, who is offering advice on how to maintain/improve player engagement and retention, and dismissing the well thought out and explained feedback with one line of snark - strawmanning the discussion and completely ignoring all of the points. Impressive!

If this is the same BW class lead she was universally hated by everyone in that group and responsible for getting BW overbuffed into the stratosphere early on. Might as well shitpost since this threads already in the gutter.

Way to be completely useless. make a wrong assumption, then dismiss it all because the GM is rude.

[Starx]

Imagine having input from a professional who has worked on some very well respected and regarded games, who is offering advice on how to maintain/improve player engagement and retention, and dismissing the well thought out and explained feedback with one line of snark - strawmanning the discussion and completely ignoring all of the points. Impressive!

If this is the same BW class lead she was universally hated by everyone in that group and responsible for getting BW overbuffed into the stratosphere early on. Might as well shitpost since this threads already in the gutter.

Way to be completely useless. make a wrong assumption, then dismiss it all because the GM is rude.

As a magus main being conpletely useless is what I do

[Alfa1986]

Vladthedad summed up my feelings nicely. A change like the OP suggested would only shift the "end-game" content from one area to another, and make that other area inaccessible to a chunk of the playerbase all over again. I don't have a good answer for players "city logging", but I don't think that shifting focus from higher-content zones down to lower-content zones is the right answer. Players will always seek the most efficient means to farm something, and if that becomes the ORvR lakes then you will see City Sieges almost completely die out, or become a temporary side-effect interruption to everyone's regularly scheduled lake farm. Royal Crests were also added to high-end zone bags, so it isn't like the devs don't reward ORvR participation for progression players.

If you play NA time, then for maybe it will be a surprise that who play in EU prime time doesn’t see city sieges anyway, so we won’t lose anything and won’t get anything in that meaning)

[Telen]

VERY PERSONNAL 2 CTS (and no troll or taunt):

i think, if all you see in this game is "progression", meaning, "because i have nothing to win on ORvR (for exemple) i see no reason to involve, and i wait for city to make my character "progressing"; there is a problem.

Ask yourself in first place why you are looking for "progression". If answer is just "to progress" without any other goal like "shining in ORvR where i have nothing to win" maybe lot of time would be saved doing something else, like playing Pokemon Go (no offense, Pokemon Go is a great collecting game).

All this game is about fighting each other, and not about gathering best **** for no reason. Gear is a means not an end. Cause in the end of the day, no one will give a **** how your character is if you don't play it, but you. And thats not a solo game.

Then you could remove all gear from the game and have base stats. If this is true there would be no problem.

[Mordd]

Vladthedad summed up my feelings nicely. A change like the OP suggested would only shift the "end-game" content from one area to another, and make that other area inaccessible to a chunk of the playerbase all over again. I don't have a good answer for players "city logging", but I don't think that shifting focus from higher-content zones down to lower-content zones is the right answer. Players will always seek the most efficient means to farm something, and if that becomes the ORvR lakes then you will see City Sieges almost completely die out, or become a temporary side-effect interruption to everyone's regularly scheduled lake farm. Royal Crests were also added to high-end zone bags, so it isn't like the devs don't reward ORvR participation for progression players.

If done properly it would not shift the focus. It would only get some of the higher rank players out in ORVR. City would still be the much more reliable source for royals. But it would get some of those "only login for cities" players out in ORVR.

[wraithghost]

I like getting new gear, in every game ever you constantly try to get better gear its never the main point of playing but its a mark of progression and in this game its even more important because it helps you kill more people and get killed less.

Can't believe anyone would try and talk down to someone because of that its like saying why do you always try and get a better job/work harder.... so you can buy more/better stuff.

On topic though, at some point there will be a tipping point where people just stop bothering about cities because for most its just not worth the hassle and most of them are not fun. Then you either play an alt, do pve or quit. The amount of posts flinging up about destro not getting into to cities has already started. I have already re-rolled from Engi and am just gonna go the PVE/Sc route if it turns out the gear difference ends up being too much then that will be that.

[Wam]

Campaign issues

Spoiler:

The campaign issue is forts / high population zone defenses. I think tweaking forts and a better balance between defense and offense is a more realistic change (its currently way too high in defender favour) to reduce stalemates and make defender work to defend instead of defend by easy default. If the campaign was more fluid and less stalemate and cities was not only really obtainable when the enemy throws intentionally / or not around to defend then people shouldn't really have a legimate reason to complain if it was fairly obtainable in their primetime hours. As things stand its too easy to defend if you want to go full realm hero and pride it. The current system of sieging use to work better with lower pop, but with current pop it hasn't been adjusted enough to account for the increased in critical mass damage in chokes and pushing other zones does not work vs smart defenders because they can see with state of realm what you are doing before you do it and with war report can beat you there and with instant res into keep you cannot stop them entering especially with increased oil damage (another defender friendly change) Maybe bring back reflipping zones now that it has meaning in campaign (if defender loses a keep it becomes ruins... but they eventually recapture it and hold x amount of bo's for period of time they really should be allowed keep back and chance to counter push zone, so there is no "keep is lost no point lets move next zone mentality")

i would like medals to drop from kills too (maybe invader or warlord (if it was seperate) but not sov), to encourage pvp / fighting... but it would most likely encourage bunkering in current situation and wait for enemy to attack get free medals in the grinder... and if you attack then you are just feeding... or endless warcamp to warcamp farming in t2 ostland ... also cities will lose their value / almost exclusivity ... why bother doing end game content if you can avoid it. Better solution is to fix the current issues, give the niche unloved classes some love and more viability. Also dev's cannot fix player made problems, players should do this but don't... they want to complain until gifted, i mean you already get BIS for losing and putting in 0 effort besides showing up. The change to invader for defending / bags giving more medals on TOK was step in right direction and shows Dev's are aware of problems and trying to find middle ground without making cities null and void.

I just think forts are the real big issue and the negitive effects from the era of invadergate lingers on, and the motivation to push to a fort when you know its so stacked in defenders favour makes pushing that hard rarely is worthwhile (and even when you win fort it bugs out and gives the defenders winner bags LOL. As for the campaign I should know i lead 8 hours (not everyone can, and i don't always plan on leading that extreme) on sunday, first as a 6 man getting a few hundred kills stopping order lock zone, then as a warband leader pushing with other organised wbs in a event through rank 3 keeps and huge defenses and then pvdooring the campaign and fighting organised allies in close fights)

There is no realm balance issues magnified as much some make out, just composition balance issues which are glaring and obvious but largely player made and repeated over and over again

Spoiler:

As for balance issues, there are some classes both sides which need some love and dragging up to be viable in all aspects of the game ... but most the issues are player made issues and order lack of wanting to organise... if you want to solo que you should not really complain about the outcome (i did on my kotbs this morning and knew i would get wrecked going in) if you bring the right classes (composition) order's best setup can compete with destro and vice versa... its just mostly order's composition is trash and rng due to the amount of solo que, lack of leaders being strict on composition and stacking the apropiate classes, never mind people's individual skill level or lack of in some casses (with postioning and assisting like they never heard of it "do not tell me how to play the game QQ" ) Order still win alot of instances, its just the bad one's are really bad and again that is player issue (If destro was so op as people claim order's better groups who take time to organise 2/2/2 and work as a team wouldn't win half as much as they do) people complain to seperate pug / premade... the population is not big enough for this and defining what is a pug and what is a premade (see ranked sc's problem) and think premades only want easy ... i want pops, i dont care if its against LOB (hopefully if we have proper setup) or against random AM warband... I don't want to be treated negativily for making a effort to organise, when my enemy could care less and gets rewarded more... its very hard to train for cities because different people all the time, and enemy composition all over the place means lack of challenge and complaceny high so hard to take cities serious from a competitive side of things due to massive rng variables (time of day, whose available, how much pug filler both side have)

[Tartuccio]

I like getting new gear, in every game ever you constantly try to get better gear its never the main point of playing but its a mark of progression and in this game its even more important because it helps you kill more people and get killed less.

Can't believe anyone would try and talk down to someone because of that its like saying why do you always try and get a better job/work harder.... so you can buy more/better stuff.

On topic though, at some point there will be a tipping point where people just stop bothering about cities because for most its just not worth the hassle and most of them are not fun. Then you either play an alt, do pve or quit. The amount of posts flinging up about destro not getting into to cities has already started. I have already re-rolled from Engi and am just gonna go the PVE/Sc route if it turns out the gear difference ends up being too much then that will be that.

Agreed. I'm not a fan of the idea of all of ORVR just being a gateway to city, I think the main driving point of WAR is the OPEN pvp, and also the distinguishing feature if one were to ask what the game is about.

Sure it's not as skill based as cities, especially if you just run with the zerg, but it can be fun if you run in smaller groups or solo roam, and improvements could be made such as IMO making BOs more important to spread out the action and perhaps thin the zerg a bit. That the endgame in an MMO whose defining feature is ORVR is purely queued stuff puts the majority people off and burns them down, and it's not surprising to see why.

[wraithghost]

Sad thing is if even just once a week a set time was given for a city you could then build a proper team as a guild, it would be a great guild event, would let smaller guilds with lots of people that have commitments partake of the city and hopefully put up a bit more of a fight Vs destro. It would let so many more casuals have a go aswell.

[Yaliskah]

VERY PERSONNAL 2 CTS (and no troll or taunt):

i think, if all you see in this game is "progression", meaning, "because i have nothing to win on ORvR (for exemple) i see no reason to involve, and i wait for city to make my character "progressing"; there is a problem.

Ask yourself in first place why you are looking for "progression". If answer is just "to progress" without any other goal like "shining in ORvR where i have nothing to win" maybe lot of time would be saved doing something else, like playing Pokemon Go (no offense, Pokemon Go is a great collecting game).

All this game is about fighting each other, and not about gathering best **** for no reason. Gear is a means not an end. Cause in the end of the day, no one will give a **** how your character is if you don't play it, but you. And thats not a solo game.

Then you could remove all gear from the game and have base stats. If this is true there would be no problem.

According -afaik- there is around 3% stats progression between a set and the next one, according being vanquisher is doable by anyone without any condition of triggering (and it is a pretty good set), i think it is almost the case.
Unless this 6% gap between vanq and sov transform an average player in a terrifying monster -which is not the case- the difference is pretty low.

Aparthe, we are light years away from the doomflyer and warpforged sets and how it made the game absolutely unbalanced and ridiculous (made by professionnal).

In conclusion, "triggered" content is not a mandatory to be efficient in any aspect of the game.