The Great Healer Debate - Armor vs. Wounds

[Toggle]

Yea, now Armor gets even more value than Wounds, as Healer u want to be 7.5k+ wounds and 3.3k+ armor, anything more is good bonus.

Do you take the time to read over the work that Zomega did comparing armor and wounds? I find that more often than not, when I get this type of response (especially in game), it means that the person hasn't taken the time to look at the math that was done and think about it critically.

[Omegus]

How would a zealot go about stacking toughness?

Badly . A Shaman (or something with Shammy) support might do better thanks to Do Something Useful. It's a shame as toughness is a great stat to combine with absorb shields as the toughness reduction applies before damage absorbed calculation.

[Toggle]

How would a zealot go about stacking toughness?

Badly . A Shaman (or something with Shammy) support might do better thanks to Do Something Useful. It's a shame as toughness is a great stat to combine with absorb shields as the toughness reduction applies before damage absorbed calculation.

You're killin' me smalls!

[Xergon]

Yea, now Armor gets even more value than Wounds, as Healer u want to be 7.5k+ wounds and 3.3k+ armor, anything more is good bonus.

Do you take the time to read over the work that Zomega did comparing armor and wounds? I find that more often than not, when I get this type of response (especially in game), it means that the person hasn't taken the time to look at the math that was done and think about it critically.

??? Whats your problem mate ?

He provided nice work in excel, cool. It looks very nice on paper, but what it doesn't take into consideration is that with Armor u increase mitigation of any kind physical aoe/dot pressure. Before Moral changes, Wounds were preventing u from moral drops deaths, which ofc u could avoid by better positioning. Now Armor gets more value as Insta Morale drops dmg got nerfed.

[Kobra]

The Vanquisher proc is really good. Speaking in terms of Shaman, Invader is actually not that good overall in comparison to Vanquisher set procs. I think a good number of Shaman run 3/3 Vanq/Invader until SOV is completed because the 3/3 gives you all of the WP/Wounds and a good mix of mitigations and heal crit.

SW changed the meta (broke it all really, but hey), since the defensive tactics don't even work against them... (Deft Defender is way less useful now - aka Dodge)I tried about 11 different builds/constructs last weekend and found - for Shaman's. I was much much better off with;

Renown into FS and Heal Crit.
3/3 Vanq/Invader (giving about 8,200 hp to shaman)
Spec'd high enough for Do Sumfin Useful (+toughness) and Shrug it Off.

Then using tactics: Greener Cleaner, Extra Special Mushrooms, Ain't Done Yet, Whazat Behind you?!, Green Cleanin'.

Heal Crit hit 40% which is pretty incredible in action and since you are cleansing way more with the SW spam out there might as well get another 1000hp heal from it along with the 300 dmg absorb shield. But the real clincher is Ain't Done Yet combined with Shrug it Off for a 65% boost to heals under 25% health. Add in the substantial toughness boost of Do Sumfin Useful, which works very well against SW's, and you have a really good combo.

The above combination I found the most survivable given the current meta with WL/SW/SM spam teams out and about, and especially for the SW Broadhead Arrow Stack Spam. It started as a horrible weekend, the above turned it into a really good time and no further deaths to SW's spam for me.

Armor? I don't even really worry too much about it anymore because of the armor dropping stuff order gets, along with SW's completely ignoring it.

[Toggle]

Yea, now Armor gets even more value than Wounds, as Healer u want to be 7.5k+ wounds and 3.3k+ armor, anything more is good bonus.

Do you take the time to read over the work that Zomega did comparing armor and wounds? I find that more often than not, when I get this type of response (especially in game), it means that the person hasn't taken the time to look at the math that was done and think about it critically.

??? Whats your problem mate ?

He provided nice work in excel, cool. It looks very nice on paper, but what it doesn't take into consideration is that with Armor u increase mitigation of any kind physical aoe/dot pressure. Before Moral changes, Wounds were preventing u from moral drops deaths, which ofc u could avoid by better positioning. Now Armor gets more value as Insta Morale drops dmg got nerfed.

Nothing. Did I seem upset?

That's exactly what the data does take into consideration and compare, so I'm not quite sure what your point is. Nothing has changed with the calculations of values for wounds vs. armor based on the morale changes. Zomega already addressed why. I'd be happy to discuss errors that you see in his math to support your position that armor is better, but I haven't seen that so far.

[analoghermit]

Realising the S in SW stands actually for Spirit, Wounds sure help a lot more to not get deleted by Vengeful Crosscut or FtW.

[Celyt]

Depends on the faction, and also the class. But wounds is not a good alternative to survivability

[nuadarstark]

Sooo does anyone actually have an aswer to this? Because the absolute majority of this thread has been mostly arguing, namecalling and not a lot of good information.

As a WP, I'm somewhat conflicted - I know tons of people just easy stack all armour talis they can their hands on, but I'm not sure if that's just something done from laziness (I for sure see enough people running 5piece curative with their INV gear, etc to make me thing it's just laziness) or if it's actually all that useful. 8x 180 armour tali and solid gear pushes you to just over 4k armour unbuffed/unpotted, above 4.5k buffed/potted. And with how much of the dmg can still be generated by armour ignoring sources, I just don't know. Also, how important would you say something like a "Reduced armour penetration" bonuses would be?

Prior to the morale changes, I've been half armour and half wounds (4-4) and was quite happy with it. As a WP, surviving is imho less about the armour itself and more about positioning, managing your CDs and resources and just going absolutely nuts with the AoE detaunt.

[Toggle]

Sooo does anyone actually have an aswer to this? Because the absolute majority of this thread has been mostly arguing, namecalling and not a lot of good information.

As a WP, I'm somewhat conflicted - I know tons of people just easy stack all armour talis they can their hands on, but I'm not sure if that's just something done from laziness (I for sure see enough people running 5piece curative with their INV gear, etc to make me thing it's just laziness) or if it's actually all that useful. 8x 180 armour tali and solid gear pushes you to just over 4k armour unbuffed/unpotted, above 4.5k buffed/potted. And with how much of the dmg can still be generated by armour ignoring sources, I just don't know. Also, how important would you say something like a "Reduced armour penetration" bonuses would be?

Prior to the morale changes, I've been half armour and half wounds (4-4) and was quite happy with it. As a WP, surviving is imho less about the armour itself and more about positioning, managing your CDs and resources and just going absolutely nuts with the AoE detaunt.

The math that was done doesn’t really apply to WP/DoKs because they are a medium armor class. But you should be able to use the min/max tool to figure out if you can effectively stack enough armor for it to be worthwhile. The classes addressed were also all Order classes, so you’d also have to take into account any armor debuffs/ignores that Destro has. So, in short, for your particular situation - not really.