From the first fight we know it's over.

[Noslock]

It's not about solo or groupt up.

It's about full guild almost full sov and casual weekend players with a non meta char.

Sadly many guild premade wanna farm this weak guyz, lucky there are some good premade guyz who wanna find challenge and not pug farm. They are less imo.

The point is not about make pug city coz they lazy to group up. The point is very boring when the enemy doesn't even have a lil chance.

This is the endgame (imo ranked sc the endgame)
So it should be fantastic big fights. But now most of you just check the twitch and discord and wait to q to avoid anybody who has chance to beat you. And make only 18 man too to avoid full 24 premade etc.

This is not good imo the system should pair the order and destro in instance after everybody q.

Based on gear guild city mmr. Etc.

For the interesting good fight and not pug farm then afking then pugfarm a lil bit and end.

You know same story if you go sc with full premade aganist pug who hasn't got healer maybe a dps am and a 2handed knight who doesn't guard. You wipe them big clap after they go afk at wc. Very interesting...

Engi sw dps am etc all non meta player deserve city deserve fun and they could have fun if we let them fight aganist eachother. And not aganist guild premade. And premades also can have fun

Maybe a scoreboard should help to not pug farm.

And you guyz can hunt some glory and not pugs

i agree some destro guilds has no sportic heart, they just like to farm pugs nonstop. we have 2400 players where are they now. soon with unsportic actions will be again same **** as before lazypeon. siting at spawn point , pull trough barier ( i womder when gtdc will be fixed). byt again wam and tup was on order side and than they rolled destro. i dont wonder about it.
p.s ppl have chance lesser 2h tanks when half year ago peter and dansari sugested 33% guarddamage stuff. ppl started complain about it. and now we have full pugs of 2h tanks.

I dont understand the sportic heart part.Is not that premade choose to fight pugs. The system decides who fights who. Can be solo queuer can be premade can be /5 wb.
For the pull tru barriers works both side as we got pulled by a engie so no point complaining. For the tup on order side that rolled destro probably you are confused cause tup guild is destro side and then moved to order for a period to find some decent opposition so another thing you should not complain. For the 2h tanks on pugs ye that's a player issue. I run 2h with profit in city but ofc with a premade.

[Draugris]

On paper - there's nothing wrong with pugs v pugs and 24v24. But break it down into groups who queue as 6, groups who queue as 12, groups who queue as 18. Solo players who need to backfill those groups of players, for example 18, where are the other 6 coming from?

Let's say we pull 18 premade, and a 6 premade - that means we would need to have a 18, and a 6, on the opposite side. The queue system at the moment is already under scrutiny, as players aren't confident they'll get a pop if they queue at specific times (Destruction). Adding additional variables into the queue system based on people wanting to pug the content, is where it doesn't make sense to me.

You can´t have it all. If you want to do something regarding fairness, either you go ESO style and make it so that you only can queue solo, no groups at all. Or you go no solo queueing anymore and force people to make a full Warband prior to queueing. Each alternative has pros and cons. Alternative one is obviously the more accessible one while contradicting the spirit of the game being group-based. The second of course is more tactical and from a gameplay perspective the better alternative but then people who do not play the metagame and flavor of the month stuff will be left out. From my point of view, I would pick the second option despite it would mean that balancing would have to change drastically.

[Hecksa]

You can´t have it all. If you want to do something regarding fairness,

What's unfair? I can never really be bothered to find a group for cities lately, so I just roll in solo. That opens me to being more likely to lose, because I'm being lazy.

I'm cool with that tradeoff, so I keep doing it. Seems absolutely fair to me. More than fair actually, not many games I can hop into the endgame of solo and still end up with a decent winrate.

[Vayra]

You can´t have it all. If you want to do something regarding fairness,

What's unfair? I can never really be bothered to find a group for cities lately, so I just roll in solo. That opens me to being more likely to lose, because I'm being lazy.

I'm cool with that tradeoff, so I keep doing it. Seems absolutely fair to me. More than fair actually, not many games I can hop into the endgame of solo and still end up with a decent winrate.

You and me and a few others are, but many are not and expect to be able to win when going in solo. While not accepting that by going solo you leave everything up to the luck of the draw.

[Draugris]

What's unfair? I can never really be bothered to find a group for cities lately, so I just roll in solo. That opens me to being more likely to lose, because I'm being lazy.

I'm cool with that tradeoff, so I keep doing it. Seems absolutely fair to me. More than fair actually, not many games I can hop into the endgame of solo and still end up with a decent winrate.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, I would disagree though. For me I prefer to have matches on a level playing field.

[BeautfulToad]

Same issue in SCs, going destro or order, to be honest. Premades beat pugs 9 times out of 10. A plus, just getting a balanced party goes a long way evening the score.

City seiges last a long time so it can be a bit frustrating. You have to stick around for an hour. Should end early if one side is getting destroyed

[nuadarstark]

And here's another fine exemple of order composition.Ask yourself why u lose.

I mean...compositions like that happen all the time, but not necessarily because of any player issues.

Big amount of Order classes aren't viable in any or larger numbers per WB, so you don't get picked up by any non-guild WB because /5 will not inv you and neither will any premades. So you solo qeueu if you want at least some chance at more than the 3 roayls. And then massive pool of solo qeued WHs, Engis, SWs, AMs throws these randomly to the pool of 6-mans, 12-mans or 18-mans or creates a whole solo qeued insances. That can seriously **** up the whole city, even if you try to get good comp.

We run a tight 6 or 12-man and we got added 6 engis, 6 WHs to us on several occasions. On order you really don't have any way to dodge this, as not every guild is going to have a chance to build a complete 24-man and even pugging a solid 2-2-2 is often very hard.

[Elemint]

Phew am i glad that all these soloers don't band together and form a group for 6v6 or wb for city fights, soloing has made them so much more skilled that it wouldn't even be a fight...
Thank you, pugs, for choosing the harder approach and allowing a premade scrub like me to have a chance at winning

[nuadarstark]

Form WB from what? Again, they're unlikely to get a WB with solid composition, as there is a disproportional amount of classes you "don't want" in cities or want a limited amount of. And how is them trying to get even a 6 man going to change anything? Sure you have a chance you get paired with a solid 18-man or 12-man, etc but you have the same chance to get that as a soloer.

[Vayra]

Form WB from what? Again, they're unlikely to get a WB with solid composition, as there is a disproportional amount of classes you "don't want" in cities or want a limited amount of. And how is them trying to get even a 6 man going to change anything? Sure you have a chance you get paired with a solid 18-man or 12-man, etc but you have the same chance to get that as a soloer.

Yes, there are classes you don't always want many of, but you can always make do with them if you have a good balance of classes. You'll do better if you have a more melee heavy set up with some BWs for either ranged AOE pressure or ST burst. But you can do just fine with a more ranged heavy setup with SWs and Engies, provided they're willing to spec properly and work together. But the key point is you need 8 healers and 8 tanks. These can also be whatever, though certain combinations are more desirable. And ideally you should be in voice comms. I've been in /5 warbands this past week where we had 4 doks, 3 of us were shield/dps doks. Rest were a mix of shamans/zealots that provided most of the healing. Our actual dps classes were a mix of everything, same with tanks. We still did very well, and ended up winning quite comfortably. Why? Because we had the right distribution of classes and most of us were on discord and working together. Our opposition was fairly balanced (I think it was a /5 12/18 man and some pugs), but was a bit light on tanks as I recall. Their dps setups were good (good amount of melee and not a lot of ranged), but they lacked the cohesion and target focus to make good use of it. Had their communication been better it would have been a very hard fight for us with the setup we had.

As for 6 mans? Granted I only have experience running 6 mans on destro, where odds are you'll get another 6 man or a 12/18 man as well in the instance, but it can still be very useful if you only have pugs for the other 18 people. For one, you can provide leadership and direction to the instance. If people are willing to listen to you, just stepping up and taking charge can dramatically improve the performance of your team. Invite the rest of the instance into discord if they're willing to join, and you suddenly have a group that is capable of working together on a task rather than milling about in 24 different directions. Secondly, if you're up against a pure pug (or a limited premade), having a good 6 man core to play around will give you a good advantage over the other side. Push in and pressure their backline (if your dps setup allows), this will give the rest of your team some much-needed space to kill off the other team. Or if you expect them to push deep, hang back and protect the backline while the rest of the team fights on the frontline. If you keep pressure off the healers, that gives your other tanks and dps a much better fighting chance.
And finally, it gives you at least some control over the people you play with. If you go in solo, you have no control over if you'll have tanks to guard dps, or healers to keep you alive. So for that reason alone, it's worth grouping up to give you a better chance at winning.