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From the first fight we know it's over.

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emiliorv
Posts: 1341

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#181 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:27 am

Draugris wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:43 am
emiliorv wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:13 pm If you only want to play the content => ask devs to make IC/Altdorf into the SC selection. This way ppl like you can queue and join the fun to play a 24 Vs 24 sc during 1 hour without end content reward....(Breaking news) No one will queue....maybe full premades as a training or test compositions.
That does not seem like a good idea, first it would split the player base which is always bad. Second it would cost a lot more developer time than just changes to the queueing system
-This dont split anything.
-Devs time: sure will need some time to make it working. but the SC is made, they only need to put into usual rotation and remove rewards. Really not sure how you can confirm that this will be more/less work than other changes

-If ppl want to play Cities only for fun this is the only solution.

Enjoy your 1h sc 24 Vs 24 pugs with no rewards => looks too much fun...

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Alfa1986
Posts: 541

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#182 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:30 am

wonshot wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:26 am
Alfa1986 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:07 am
...many players are right who claim that the system is too supportive and friendly to large guilds/alliance, but too cruel to small guilds and solo players. maybe it’s certainly done on purpose, so that people join large guilds and it is easier to manage? mb. Idk....
Just chipping in with my own experience here. On city launch my guild quickly realized that the meta for orvr and city were completly different, not only didnt we have our members all able to attend in these random hours of city-sieges happening due to irl comitments. But also we had to rethink our setups. We ran to our best succes when we matched our 3fg of aoe-idiot warbanshitters with 6man heroes to a mix of both worlds. We had some great and good fights, and as people got full gear it became harder and harder to fill out the slots so had to rethink the approach again.

We then started to reach out to alliance guilds and have some alliance-wide warband setups, but going back on the drawing board as we started experimenting with setup. Ran too much aoe, too little healer-killing. Too many lowgeared dps players unable to assist and/or compete vs the endgame geared setups. And then had to take a step back from the more competitive fights and gear our new recruit lineup up (order luxuary) basicly dodgeing and queueing looking for other teams on our level who also queued with closed warband 3fg instead of a full 24man stack.

So now we are back at a point where we think our 3-4fg might have gear and we start queueing earlier again and poke the bear in the early instances. For the cities fireing off at really impossible hours we have reached out and expanded the alliance to have some 6man smaller guilds available to assist with a party or less for these moments.

This is alot of effort extra put into just being what most destro see as mediocre performance attendance from us, and that is fine. We focus on our internal progression and have attempted to tacle the issues as we faced them.

So where does this bit of story-time fit into this topic? Well it is very easy to claim the victum role of soloqueing or being lesser organized, and start complaining about how the world is unfair. As someone posted very well on this very page, everything here is a choice. Do you wake up at night to do city, do you put in work to get organized and put yourself in a better possition to win, or just attend for a chance of participation trophies.

Ive been in that spot, facing TUP and fighting for reaching just one killingblow. it is rough! We kept coming at them, tried different things and in the end still got our asses handed to us lol (check their memevideos)
But we learned something minor each fight, we talked it through and tried to improve on the areas where we are lacking. Now are we ready for a TUP insance again? probably not, atleast not for winning. but we have improved internally and next time we face them we might get one more kill and then we take it from there
I do not accept (understand) the arguments like "we made a lot of efforts ... and therefore we have the right to ...". to be honest, I have no hatred / envy for large guilds and organized warbands, but what you say as an excuse does not make much sense.

judge for yourself, you say that you are trying various options for compiling builds and specs, spending many hours choosing the best setup from certain classes and so on ... stop, are you doing all this for me or for someone else? you lead this way as you do like to do it and do it first of all for yourself, for your ego, to show "yes look, we have worked for a long time, improved yourself, and now we are the best." You do this because you like to play in this way, sitting with a calculator, calculate which setup will be most useful in a given situation. (Mathematics is a great science))).


it’s wonderful, I don’t blame you, but as i wrote earlier that the main thing in the game is the competition. but let's be objective, you yourself say that few people on the server can equal you in strength. (Tur, fmg, mb someone else idk). But what about everyone else you can easily kill in 2 seconds? (The game in this case turns for the weaker side into died-res-died-res), this is not cool for anyone.

Many people do not have so much free time to hone their skills (get equal equipment(wake up for sity at 3 am or so on)) to compete with those players who are in the game 24/24, but they also want to play and have fun and use the same content as hardcore players. In my opinion, they have a right to it, although maybe someone thinks differently, I do not know.
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wonshot
Posts: 1192

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#183 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:48 am

Alfa1986 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:30 am Many people do not have so much free time to hone their skills (get equal equipment(wake up for sity at 3 am or so on)) to compete with those players who are in the game 24/24, but they also want to play and have fun and use the same content as hardcore players. In my opinion, they have a right to it, although maybe someone thinks differently, I do not know.
Well this is an MMO. The mmo genre has always had strong value in character commitment, the easy stuff to track such as ingame levels, equipment progression, moving from quest hub to quest hub. But eventually the easy progression is done with you hit max level, you get the best gear you can and then you have to start working on your server reputation to get inivted into those World of warcraft raids, you get into a group or guild of likeminded folks. That is the multiplayer asepct.

If people are playing a largescale pvp game like RoR or Warhammer online, but as a solo puggie, then you will fall behind and you will miss out(this is one of the better mmos in terms of tools and ability to coordinate). This cant be a shock to anyone! Gear advantage, facing better and/or more organized players is a part of this game genre. If everyone wanted a "press-play" game such as a Battle Royal lobby or a Moba where you start on a completly equal playing ground, would the same people complain that some players are on voicecom in the lobby and playing together, or that other players last-hit creeps better..

On Live the mentality was just different, atleast on Karak Norn. if you got rolled by something you looked up to that "something" and put in effort to catch up and take part of being on the top. On RoR it seems to be the other way around its a competition of who can slack the most and get rewarded for it. Why when facing a premade in scs stop queueing and not form your own premades. Why when Wam is against you in city not join a guild and go kill him. He has an hp bar just like you and me, and it can go to zero. (generally speaking to everyone here)
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p00ky
Posts: 132

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#184 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:02 am

Please just put premades vs premades. You detect a 5+ group queing, keep them queing until same group on other side. Its so boring if not...

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desizt
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Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#185 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:05 pm

Did city last night vs Order pug with 1 tank, 4 healers and 19 dps?

Sure it's so easy to just run to the gate and queue up and ignore 50+ people spamming LFG in /5 not even bothering to make a 6/12 man optimized group.

And then "FrOm tHe fiRsT fiGhT wE kNoW iT's ovEr." threads.

/sigh

Edit:
Please just put premades vs premades. You detect a 5+ group queing, keep them queing until same group on other side. Its so boring if not...
If you want "solo cities" you are playing a wrong game.
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desizt
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Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#186 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:11 pm

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Last edited by desizt on Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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~ First rr100 WE on live.
~ First WE with 1+ million RvR kills on live.


Download RoR Client directly via Google Drive(updated 04 Oct 2020)

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Omegus
Posts: 1528

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#187 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:18 pm

These people deserve full Sovereign too! This was IC2 btw so it was a case of run up and queue immediately rather than even try and form a group.

Ban non-24s from city.

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desizt
Posts: 131
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Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#188 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:24 pm

Mindset of an entitled, selfish player:

"o hey its the pinnacle end-game gear, let me just go try to get it solo"

"oh **** it didnt work, i better blame everyone but myself"

"REMOVE PREMADES FROM CITIES OMG"
Nonoffensive - WE
Faceburn - BW
+ tons of misc alts

~ First rr100 WE on live.
~ First WE with 1+ million RvR kills on live.


Download RoR Client directly via Google Drive(updated 04 Oct 2020)

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Alfa1986
Posts: 541

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#189 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:55 pm

wonshot wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:48 am
Alfa1986 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:30 am Many people do not have so much free time to hone their skills (get equal equipment(wake up for sity at 3 am or so on)) to compete with those players who are in the game 24/24, but they also want to play and have fun and use the same content as hardcore players. In my opinion, they have a right to it, although maybe someone thinks differently, I do not know.
Well this is an MMO. The mmo genre has always had strong value in character commitment, the easy stuff to track such as ingame levels, equipment progression, moving from quest hub to quest hub. But eventually the easy progression is done with you hit max level, you get the best gear you can and then you have to start working on your server reputation to get inivted into those World of warcraft raids, you get into a group or guild of likeminded folks. That is the multiplayer asepct.

If people are playing a largescale pvp game like RoR or Warhammer online, but as a solo puggie, then you will fall behind and you will miss out(this is one of the better mmos in terms of tools and ability to coordinate). This cant be a shock to anyone! Gear advantage, facing better and/or more organized players is a part of this game genre. If everyone wanted a "press-play" game such as a Battle Royal lobby or a Moba where you start on a completly equal playing ground, would the same people complain that some players are on voicecom in the lobby and playing together, or that other players last-hit creeps better..

On Live the mentality was just different, atleast on Karak Norn. if you got rolled by something you looked up to that "something" and put in effort to catch up and take part of being on the top. On RoR it seems to be the other way around its a competition of who can slack the most and get rewarded for it. Why when facing a premade in scs stop queueing and not form your own premades. Why when Wam is against you in city not join a guild and go kill him. He has an hp bar just like you and me, and it can go to zero. (generally speaking to everyone here)
This is not about gaming genres. Playing any shooter (contr strike, quake, unrealtournament etc) you can also run into a team that will coordinate your actions much better and eventually they ll trample on you. This conversation is about spliting the strength of the entire community into certain levels and an attempt to balance the power between the realms in an every single instance of the mirror, so that everyone would be interested in fighting an equal rival in strength, and not be stomped in 2 seconds (as I see tis topic).


It is one thing when it is difficult for you to obtain the final game equipment (as it was before with the genesis set), another thing when it is completely blocked (as it is with the sovereign now).
I don’t think that there is any difference in mentality, it’s just that there were more people on the servers, there were more hardcore guilds and so on.

As for why the majority of people do not want / cannot be competitive with the top guilds.
in my mind u know the answer without my suggestions.
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

M0rw47h
Posts: 898

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#190 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:19 pm

Alfa1986 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:55 pm This is not about gaming genres. Playing any shooter (contr strike, quake, unrealtournament etc) you can also run into a team that will coordinate your actions much better and eventually they ll trample on you. This conversation is about spliting the strength of the entire community into certain levels and an attempt to balance the power between the realms in an every single instance of the mirror, so that everyone would be interested in fighting an equal rival in strength, and not be stomped in 2 seconds (as I see tis topic).
Then you need to get rid of current system completly and replace it with MMR based one - which would mean no instant poping games, but ques for 30 minutes and then some matchmaking work. Doing that you would give everyone MMR and match WBs based on their average MMR. This way PUG dudes wouldn't run into TUP. However, to make it have any sense there shouldn't be any random bags given around and rewards given for win/lose should be based on personal MMR rather than City Stars or random bag rolls, so top premades fighting top premades would be more rewarded for their loss than efortless pugs would get for their effortless win at the bottom of MMR bracket.

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