From the first fight we know it's over.

[Omegus]

Ppl solo-pug insta queue when city opens => get rolfstomped => blame "premades"....Seems legit
(for sure that AM is dps specced..)

Correct, as was the 2nd AM missing from the top of the list.

We beat handily a similar cat's breakfast last night; only we recognized a lot of destro names (which I won't mention) for the third time in as many weeks in this ~17 dps comp. Apparently some players like to run like that. If they enjoy it who am I to judge.

I'm surprised they got into city! Might've been one of the many 24s that get formed with any random comp just to have a higher chance of getting an instance.

[Alfa1986]

This is not about gaming genres. Playing any shooter (contr strike, quake, unrealtournament etc) you can also run into a team that will coordinate your actions much better and eventually they ll trample on you. This conversation is about spliting the strength of the entire community into certain levels and an attempt to balance the power between the realms in an every single instance of the mirror, so that everyone would be interested in fighting an equal rival in strength, and not be stomped in 2 seconds (as I see tis topic).

Then you need to get rid of current system completly and replace it with MMR based one - which would mean no instant poping games, but ques for 30 minutes and then some matchmaking work. Doing that you would give everyone MMR and match WBs based on their average MMR. This way PUG dudes wouldn't run into TUP. However, to make it have any sense there shouldn't be any random bags given around and rewards given for win/lose should be based on personal MMR rather than City Stars or random bag rolls, so top premades fighting top premades would be more rewarded for their loss than efortless pugs would get for their effortless win at the bottom of MMR bracket.

In fact, everything is much simpler. It is necessary to make two different not related the queues: the first only for organized warbands (24 men) and pre-mades (6 men), the second for pugs and pre-mades (6 men). Organized warbands and big guilds at every corner shout that all they want is competitive battles with a strong opponents, so let them to have a separate queue for only them. why not? they deserve it, no one will argue with that, I’m sure of it.

Premades ( 6 men) need to have the choose which turn to stand in. they can choose play with pugs or play with organized wbs. 4 good premades can be competitive from mid organized wb im sure.

if they choose a pugs way, in this case it will be possible to let only an equal number of premads (6 men) into each mirror/instance for every side and it can be only 2 premades in 1 mirror, no more. for exp; each side will be have 2 group premades , and the rest be packed with pugs in a ratio of 2 * 2 * 2. Also, for a more even distribution of players in terms of training and strength, need to introduce a special rank for each player and count it when the instance is filling.

The rank of each character will consist of such parameters as RR level , the number of victories / defeats in the cities, the level of equipment and gears (sov, inv, vanq, conc), mmr and so on.

That's all.

[soulbog]

Where is the fun ?
First of all, I want to tell you that you have had a super work for 6 years.

However, we must react quickly to what is happening in capital. The game loses all its interest with monumental differences between the wb.

What do you think the players say when for the 10x they are crushed or they crush their opponent? where's the fun?

man is simple recommend people to ply just pug scenario and don't join city and other sc at all. at least 1 month when the wait on destro side will be 2h+ and will be increase shift to destro side , they will start do some changes. till then they will just recommend get better , get a team ,get a guild, but even with that your team will still do ---- when the other team just play premade hardcore every fight.

[Elemint]

Spoiler:

In fact, everything is much simpler. It is necessary to make two different not related the queues: the first only for organized warbands (24 men) and pre-mades (6 men), the second for pugs and pre-mades (6 men). Organized warbands and big guilds at every corner shout that all they want is competitive battles with a strong opponents, so let them to have a separate queue for only them. why not? they deserve it, no one will argue with that, I’m sure of it.

Premades ( 6 men) need to have the choose which turn to stand in. they can choose play with pugs or play with organized wbs. 4 good premades can be competitive from mid organized wb im sure.

if they choose a pugs way, in this case it will be possible to let only an equal number of premads (6 men) into each mirror/instance for every side and it can be only 2 premades in 1 mirror, no more. for exp; each side will be have 2 group premades , and the rest be packed with pugs in a ratio of 2 * 2 * 2. Also, for a more even distribution of players in terms of training and strength, need to introduce a special rank for each player and count it when the instance is filling.

The rank of each character will consist of such parameters as RR level , the number of victories / defeats in the cities, the level of equipment and gears (sov, inv, vanq, conc), mmr and so on.

That's all.

Guy had a simple, elegant idea and then you went and made spaghetti out of it. Why would you have 2 ques? The devs clearly stated that it's in it's core a team game and there will be no such thing as city soloq. How long until the pugs whine that premades are allowed at all in their pug que? Force 2/2/2? What about the surplus of dps, they should be left to dry and acquire sov much slower than other archetypes? If you want 2/2/2, join. a. warband. Let soloquers get ridiculous comps overstacked on dps, losing sides crests are still better than no crests. Why on earth would gear/rr count towards mmr? Simple win/loss per stage does the job just fine.

[Martok]

These people deserve full Sovereign too!

If they play the game within the parameters set, then yeah, they do. It will take longer and be more painful, but the end result has to be the same for everyone.

[Alfa1986]

Spoiler:

In fact, everything is much simpler. It is necessary to make two different not related the queues: the first only for organized warbands (24 men) and pre-mades (6 men), the second for pugs and pre-mades (6 men). Organized warbands and big guilds at every corner shout that all they want is competitive battles with a strong opponents, so let them to have a separate queue for only them. why not? they deserve it, no one will argue with that, I’m sure of it.

Premades ( 6 men) need to have the choose which turn to stand in. they can choose play with pugs or play with organized wbs. 4 good premades can be competitive from mid organized wb im sure.

if they choose a pugs way, in this case it will be possible to let only an equal number of premads (6 men) into each mirror/instance for every side and it can be only 2 premades in 1 mirror, no more. for exp; each side will be have 2 group premades , and the rest be packed with pugs in a ratio of 2 * 2 * 2. Also, for a more even distribution of players in terms of training and strength, need to introduce a special rank for each player and count it when the instance is filling.

The rank of each character will consist of such parameters as RR level , the number of victories / defeats in the cities, the level of equipment and gears (sov, inv, vanq, conc), mmr and so on.

That's all.

Guy had a simple, elegant idea and then you went and made spaghetti out of it. Why would you have 2 ques? The devs clearly stated that it's in it's core a team game and there will be no such thing as city soloq. How long until the pugs whine that premades are allowed at all in their pug que? Force 2/2/2? What about the surplus of dps, they should be left to dry and acquire sov much slower than other archetypes? If you want 2/2/2, join. a. warband. Let soloquers get ridiculous comps overstacked on dps, losing sides crests are still better than no crests. Why on earth would gear/rr count towards mmr? Simple win/loss per stage does the job just fine.

1. MMR for the city will work as well as MMR works for scenarios today, that is, in no way. Namely, no one will get a pop at all.

2. Two ques are needed to separate the players in strength and power, so that some do not intersect with others and do not receive from the game such negative emotions as they have now. The spirit of team play will not be affected in any way, since both case the teams and not solo players will play there and there. I do not urge to create a separate instance for each solo player lol
3. Premades also whine, as we all can see and obsorve, it is obvious that no one likes this situation. But solo players, unlike premades, rarely speak negatively and toxicly towards the opponent.

4. too many of DPS is a problem, but people themselves choose the class for which they want to play. Do you propose filling out the instance 24 DPS against 24 DPS in this case? Or what? Yes, some of the players will remain overboard the siege of the city, but and today some of the players do not get a pop. You can not please everyone. me too as dps very often dont get a pop in the sity, although as a healer dont have this problem.
5. take into account the level of equipment/gears and the RR level when instance is filling is a necessary condition for creating competitive and equal fights for pugs.

[Akalukz]

Spoiler:

Where is the fun ?
First of all, I want to tell you that you have had a super work for 6 years.

However, we must react quickly to what is happening in capital. The game loses all its interest with monumental differences between the wb.

What do you think the players say when for the 10x they are crushed or they crush their opponent? where's the fun?

man is simple recommend people to ply just pug scenario and don't join city and other sc at all. at least 1 month when the wait on destro side will be 2h+ and will be increase shift to destro side , they will start do some changes. till then they will just recommend get better , get a team ,get a guild, but even with that your team will still do ---- when the other team just play premade hardcore every fight.

pretty much this, as long as pugs / solo join the city they will not make any changes. Was the same with PUG Scenario, it wasn't till all the solo/duo players stopped queueing for any scenario did they make any changes.

[Elemint]

1. MMR for the city will work as well as MMR works for scenarios today, that is, in no way. Namely, no one will get a pop at all.

2. Two ques are needed to separate the players in strength and power, so that some do not intersect with others and do not receive from the game such negative emotions as they have now. The spirit of team play will not be affected in any way, since both case the teams and not solo players will play there and there. I do not urge to create a separate instance for each solo player lol
3. Premades also whine, as we all can see and obsorve, it is obvious that no one likes this situation. But solo players, unlike premades, rarely speak negatively and toxicly towards the opponent.

4. too many of DPS is a problem, but people themselves choose the class for which they want to play. Do you propose filling out the instance 24 DPS against 24 DPS in this case? Or what? Yes, some of the players will remain overboard the siege of the city, but and today some of the players do not get a pop. You can not please everyone. me too as dps very often dont get a pop in the sity, although as a healer dont have this problem.
5. take into account the level of equipment/gears and the RR level when instance is filling is a necessary condition for creating competitive and equal fights for pugs.

Did you even read his suggestion at all?

[M0rw47h]

So rewards for losing would be 3-13 and 11-26 for winning based on MMR.
Which means top of MMR can get more for losing, than bottom gets for winning, sounds fair trade for challenge.

So, get an X amount of time before cities pop for everyone to que, calculate wb mmr on entering que, collect all that's less than a wb, fill it until 24, sort and match from top? Scale rewards with highest rated of the 2 sides. Sounds decently thought out.

If the rewards curve was set only when cities begin, from what you have in the que instead of fixed, and mmr was awarded each stage, it seems like it would be an improvement over current system

Well, matchmaking could also try to do 2/2/2 parties for as many soloers as possible - it's already doing it for solo ranked.

[Zxul]

On the side note, I'm actually pretty sure that matchmaking putting the overflow dps soloers into 24vs24 no healers/no tanks wbs will make for some pretty entertaining fight. Still have memories of Redeemer arenas in Unreal back in the day.