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Patch Notes 15/07/2020

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satanicomoderno
Posts: 110

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#71 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:50 pm

mryay wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:35 pm
Hi guys,
  1. Is it possible for a Dev to jump in and explain the motive of the changes for the SW, please?
  2. And can someone explain how a balance change is being monitored and tested before going to production?

Thanks, Swizz
My friend, if there was any monitoring about balance, choppas wouldn't have Get to the Chop ever nor squigs would have this stupid squig armor or Doks would have snare aura, or blackguards would have perma kd that nothing is able to break it. One faction have so much CC while other lacks it.

When the changes came for Kotbs and Chosen, they put a penality of 15% more damage on Ktobs and 15% less heal for Chosen. Where, in this world is this fair? What is happening with SWs and this sequence of ORder nerfs just contributes for the low number of Order players. That's all.

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Kwatchi
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Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#72 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:57 pm

Wam wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:25 pm
Zxul wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:02 pm
Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
Game as already been titled in order's favour since morale nerf and you see alot of people talking out their ***

at the high end level pre morale bomb nerf things was pretty close, it came down to individual mistakes / assist pressures both side could M BOMB just destro would get there first, but order having more raw dmg and heals made up for this

The best players rarely ever got M bombed and wiped because of it on order in cities because their healers are top level and carry hard... where other healers are rookies in comparison. Dev's eventually listen to people who cry for long time and nerf things and put the training wheels on and still it's not enough for some.

Also lol at balance around cities. When we farmed our gear on order side at the start we had to worry about morale drain and morale bomb and we still beat premades on our alts who was just getting into vanq. You no longer have to worry about morale drain or m bomb that hard on order side totally changes the way you can play... maybe only a handful of destro can compete with top order setup.

Order needs more organisation not more tilting. That is player issue not design issue. SW was meme pre being experimented with... if it still in a meme catergory or not doesnt change the fact that WL/SL/BW are very strong dps classes. BW most dps, kotbs best tank, wp best healer.
Cripes. Really? Order has not won a city since the SW ‘correction’ and we’re back to more demands for WL/rampage/whatever nerfs and AMs are fine? (Lol. Big nope there. They are city chew toys). Yet you continue with the whole ‘order has worse players’ refrain to explain the titled results - cause never winning is the definition of titled. And when you do manage to lose to us order roleplayers it is ‘we had useless pugs’ or ‘the sun was in our eyes’. It has become a literal farce in here.

I swear if the devs mirrored the classes tomorrow, certain Destro would claim we had the advantage because our armour is shinier and it distracts you.
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Manatikik
Posts: 1126

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#73 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:58 pm

So let me do a quick rundown of changes to SW after the rework to "buff" rSW:

- Fester can no conditionally be unavoidable

-SW can no longer kite

-Skirmish has no ST pressure

-ASW damage is nerfed via Crosscut

-BHA damage is nerfed

-LA is given a 5s CD with no damage/ap compensation

-Glass Arrow is removed for a nominal damage increase trade off for a large AP increase

-Steady Aim is still not useful outside of some niche moments (since it is on GCD)

-Barrage got a tiny buff in being spammable with WW (morale drain is nominal)

So overall all aspects of SW got nerfed in all aspects except Scout QoL. I'd love to see more open conversations by Dev's about SW (as long as we can all have it in a respectable manner) where people who play the class can actually get questions answered about SW direction and reasoning.
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Omegus
Posts: 424

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#74 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:01 pm

Anyone admitting to being directly involved with class balance on live probably shouldn't be offering balance tips to others ;)
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sogeou
Posts: 214

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#75 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:26 pm

Manatikik wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:58 pm
So let me do a quick rundown of changes to SW after the rework to "buff" rSW:

- Fester can no conditionally be unavoidable

-SW can no longer kite

-Skirmish has no ST pressure

-ASW damage is nerfed via Crosscut

-BHA damage is nerfed

-LA is given a 5s CD with no damage/ap compensation

-Glass Arrow is removed for a nominal damage increase trade off for a large AP increase

-Steady Aim is still not useful outside of some niche moments (since it is on GCD)

-Barrage got a tiny buff in being spammable with WW (morale drain is nominal)

So overall all aspects of SW got nerfed in all aspects except Scout QoL. I'd love to see more open conversations by Dev's about SW (as long as we can all have it in a respectable manner) where people who play the class can actually get questions answered about SW direction and reasoning.
Hardly any devs play the game. Really balance should be done by a team of players, no dev should be putting any changes thru as I don't feel any of them play the classes enough to really have a good understanding of the changes.

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Akilinus
Posts: 308

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#76 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 pm

Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
Order is back to losing City sieges by decent margin post morale nerf.
50% of the order population are either sniper engies who only sit on walls or solo dps am/white lions.

Are you really surprised that these players lose when they try to pug cities?
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Zymer
Posts: 23

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#77 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:49 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 pm
Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
Order is back to losing City sieges by decent margin post morale nerf.
50% of the order population are either sniper engies who only sit on walls or solo dps am/white lions.

Are you really surprised that these players lose when they try to pug cities?
I feel personally attacked :lol:

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Wam
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Posts: 657

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#78 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:53 pm

Kwatchi wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:57 pm
Wam wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:25 pm
Zxul wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:02 pm


Cripes. Really? Order has not won a city since the SW ‘correction’ and we’re back to more demands for WL/rampage/whatever nerfs and AMs are fine? (Lol. Big nope there. They are city chew toys). Yet you continue with the whole ‘order has worse players’ refrain to explain the titled results - cause never winning is the definition of titled. And when you do manage to lose to us order roleplayers it is ‘we had useless pugs’ or ‘the sun was in our eyes’. It has become a literal farce in here.

I swear if the devs mirrored the classes tomorrow, certain Destro would claim we had the advantage because our armour is shinier and it distracts you.
Spoiler:
LOB / MONT never had issues on order side (they even used SW and engi) just their healers dont all stand together and ask to die then complain :lol:

we never had issues order side if we run full proper setup and that was pre slayers being buffed and morale drain/bomb nerf...

people ask about balance... if you know my past im for buffing magus/engi / welf/wh and rsw... and even rsh.

Your realm lacks players playing tanks they spread too thinly ... the classes are fine and hey order tanks can even see morales in cities since mara utility nerf... again its population imbalance for 2-2-2 setup across the board. The engi population is way higher than magus population. So if you bring more dps classes to city you are bringing less tank or healer and breaks instances... that is main reason for "losses". There is no smoke without fire for these classes, it goes back to the "pet problem" for magus/engi and RSH. Lack of aoe/crit changes for wh/welf. The m2 nerf for sw/rsh amongst other issues. Give love to niche classes to make them more competitive with current core classes to make them more viable and less "outcast" but still won't solve the core problem across the board too many RDPS not enough tanks long standing order problem for years. if your setup is broken you are disadvantaged, but if your setup is full order should have slight edge currently.

Tanks are fine on order, if these outclass classes get the love they desire/need will people play them more and create even more a divide in tank - dps - healer balance? and if you buff order tanks to make more appealing you create more imbalance between realms lol. So its bit of poisoned chalice, make them look visually more appealing is a crap shoot if it makes them get played more.

Back on topic of niche classes getting love, somethings get fixed and others do not I guess that leads to frustration of some of the main players on those classes(they dont know if they coming or going)... and i know its volunteer and time/resource limited and x y z specialist in different areas. But broken engi/magus pets has been a long standing issue so its easy to see why they get frustrated when no change in status quo, and classes like slayer/choppa gets a bit of love when they already viable.

WH needs to compete with WL/SL RSW and engi needs to compete with BW... they are aiming for the same dps slots and they ain't on same level playing field = people post the way they do but alot do it in wrong way and complain other side is OP lol, when their competition for spots is from the same side...

WL / Rampage is fine/strong (if you thinkg GTDC is fine/strong)... AM is a hard class to play only a few can play it to level needed (warrior priest is easy in comparison... shaman is also hard too need proper setup and support but WL's can easily hunt)
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Elftwin95
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Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#79 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:10 pm

Hello all. I usually only write positive things here and I will keep to it so to start with, thank you Devs for your hard work!

The recent changes to the Shadow Warrior had me hopefully. I have been speced ranged since my very first step upon the blood-soaked soil of WAR RoR, more than three years ago.
I noticed after a while that some changes needed to happen and while I have played the career for all this time I refrain from posting Balance Proposals since I do not have but a basic grasp of career mechanics and skills, stats, and their meaning and such.

While the first week was super fun, I knew that the current changes would not stay, and even if I feel that the current ranged Masteries are lacking, I still have faith in you who make it possible to play this awesome game to bring it around and make the SW a fun and balanced career in the meta.

Thank you!
Eldoir Duskoath SW 40/71 Shadowmaster of the Eternal Host

Strike swiftly aim true

Zxul
Posts: 823

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#80 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:21 pm

blechkautz wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:52 pm
Spoiler:
Zxul wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:02 pm
Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
I know programming and adjustments are slow on this server but wrong things are being addressed. You were supposed to buff Shadow Warriors then mild tweak them. Not gut them back.

Archmages need a ton of healing love too. They’re far behind their Shaman counterpart on defense abilities and being wanted in cities. Destro can do fine with 3 shaman in cities while Order hurt themselves the more they have.

Address AMs to be an effective healer, remove GTDC pull and just buff it’s damage, address the massive frame lag the client gives with melee squid herder bouncing, buff Order tanks slightly to encourage players to play them more and make IBs not a pain to manage. Focusing on Order tanks and healing which needs more focus why you see so many dps. Nerfing SW back to where they were isn’t going to help things.

After working on balance in DAOC, Warhammer Live, Phoenix DAOC, it’s painful to see things being ignored and wrong things being focused on and I can see and hear from friends playing both realms what the balance issues are. I can’t correct them but I’d figure eventually someone involved in balancing here will eventually see it.
Now lets get to the facts.

If am is such a worst healer than sham, care to explain how? Especially that unlike sham, am benefits from kotb's Focused Mending +15% healing? And as far as defense goes, cities don't have place to kite, while am m1 3.6 k absorb still works fine.

As for GTDC vs Rampage, it was discussed in plenty enough posts on forums.

Now, wp is already 20% (Exalted Defences) better healer than dok, 35% better when you count in kotb which is guaranteed to be in any premade party. And wp got a party wounds buff on top. And kotb is already the best tank for party in game (aforementioned Focused Mending and other buffs), better than chosen.

So why exactly order tanks and healers need buff, when they already have best tanks and healers in game, and still play dps?
Shaman has the easier Moralpump and yes, you can still kite in cities as a healer. About m1 from Am: no one would ever use the m1 over m2 in cities unless you pug as dps am.
About the focused mending and exalted defense on order: Get one chosen with the hd aura and then you have (1+0,15+0,2)*0,75 = 1,0125 heal on the targets next to the chosen for order. Wow +1,25% extra heal, poor destro... Add zealot buffs and destro has 5% more heal. (Sure kotbs has also a hd aura, but it's outgoing means way worse). SIngle target changes this, but you are talking about cities where the meta is still who can bring more aoe.
What moral pump has to do with healing ability? Since Spellbound specifically claimed ams not being an effective healers. And how exactly do you kite in cities which don't have place to move around too much, not to mention how exactly do you kite vs bw/loner wl? And more importantly, how much do you think sham can heal for while trying to kite, considering most of sham heals have 2 sec+ cast time?

About m1 from Am: dead healer doesn't heals, if you have it and need it use it.

As for (1+0,15+0,2)*0,75 = 1,0125 calculation, I doubt that it works like this, and not 1+0,15+0,2-0,25 = 1,1 = 10% extra healing even with chosen aura, but I will leave it to someone who actually tested it. Also, I do remember bws having a heal debuff proc on one of their armor sets. However, once again Spellbound was talking about needing to improve order tanks so order will play them and not just dps- so what does it has to do with wp/kotb already being best team healer/tank ingame, and order still lacking healers/tanks?
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

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