Percieved Bias and Game Balancing

[aardvak001]

Who invented this RoF stack thing someone was claiming that in a stream aswell.

Common whine tactic. State a falsehood so much until it's truth among all whiners.

I'd like to remind you that actually im not whining about class imbalance, which i stated in my original post. I am merely highlighting the differences between mirror classes. If you read my conclusions at no point do i say order classes are actually better than destro classes or vice versa, the main point im making is that the imbalance in city scores is due to a smaller number of organised order groups, and that the dev team's response to this has been to alter classes rather than address the organised population imbalance

[Ramlaen]

Who invented this RoF stack thing someone was claiming that in a stream aswell.

Common whine tactic. State a falsehood so much until it's truth among all whiners.

I'd like to remind you that actually im not whining about class imbalance, which i stated in my original post. I am merely highlighting the differences between mirror classes. If you read my conclusions at no point do i say order classes are actually better than destro classes or vice versa, the main point im making is that the imbalance in city scores is due to a smaller number of organised order groups, and that the dev team's response to this has been to alter classes rather than address the organised population imbalance

Repeating falsehoods destroys any credibility you have.

[aardvak001]

Common whine tactic. State a falsehood so much until it's truth among all whiners.

I'd like to remind you that actually im not whining about class imbalance, which i stated in my original post. I am merely highlighting the differences between mirror classes. If you read my conclusions at no point do i say order classes are actually better than destro classes or vice versa, the main point im making is that the imbalance in city scores is due to a smaller number of organised order groups, and that the dev team's response to this has been to alter classes rather than address the organised population imbalance

Repeating falsehoods destroys any credibility you have.

Ok, lets assume you're right and rain of fire does not stack. The point i wanted to raise was that the reason destro win cities is that we have more organised groups, NOT that our classes are OP and need nerfing. What I want to see the dev team doing therefore is encourage people, specifically on order to play in more organised groups and see how the winrate changes, because the evidence, albeit anecdotal, is that order loses cities because they simply solo queue and run into organised groups.

[agemennon675]

I'd like to remind you that actually im not whining about class imbalance, which i stated in my original post. I am merely highlighting the differences between mirror classes. If you read my conclusions at no point do i say order classes are actually better than destro classes or vice versa, the main point im making is that the imbalance in city scores is due to a smaller number of organised order groups, and that the dev team's response to this has been to alter classes rather than address the organised population imbalance

Repeating falsehoods destroys any credibility you have.

Ok, lets assume you're right and rain of fire does not stack. The point i wanted to raise was that the reason destro win cities is that we have more organised groups, NOT that our classes are OP and need nerfing. What I want to see the dev team doing therefore is encourage people, specifically on order to play in more organised groups and see how the winrate changes, because the evidence, albeit anecdotal, is that order loses cities because they simply solo queue and run into organised groups.

I will simply put SW vs SH example here to point out how having more viable mdps can affect the outcome of a fight in a melee/aoe meta. Edit: Also adding this here, alot of players soloq simply because they have undesired classes

[aardvak001]

Repeating falsehoods destroys any credibility you have.

Ok, lets assume you're right and rain of fire does not stack. The point i wanted to raise was that the reason destro win cities is that we have more organised groups, NOT that our classes are OP and need nerfing. What I want to see the dev team doing therefore is encourage people, specifically on order to play in more organised groups and see how the winrate changes, because the evidence, albeit anecdotal, is that order loses cities because they simply solo queue and run into organised groups.

I will simply put SW vs SH example here to point out how having more viable mdps can affect the outcome of a fight in a melee/aoe meta

Okay, once again, you've missed the point of my post. I'm not making ANY claims about ANY class being better or worse or needing a buff or needing a nerf or even how viable classes are. I am simply saying that if you have pugs vs premades, the premades will win. Destro has more premades therefore the inevitably win a higher proportion of city instances. What the devs need to do is encourage order to make more premades somehow, but clearly balancing individual classes is not working

[Gurf]

ROF does not stack, it did for a while on live and almost broke the entire game with how OP is was so if it did now you would know about it as Des wouldn't be able to take any keeps or forts.

Also saying Chosen is much worse than KOBS is such a bad comparison, Chosen is one of the best classes in the game, do you really see any Chosen moaning? KOBS is a good tank but hits like a wet noodle.

So even if you have some good points starting off with these two issues looses you a lot of credibility

[Nameless]

Many of the issues stem from a very "hardcore" point of view when approaching balancing and you posted another one. It will not achieve anything that isn't already happening.

Here's an example of a small thing you'll never notice when you're the "core" - order heavily suffers from having less tanks. This is not a balance issue, its simply the fact 2H bruiser builds are not very fun on order, so rolling a tank is less fun. Of course as a hardcore player/core audience you'll think nobody in their right mind would balance their spreadsheet that is the game to you in such a way that the numbers are less, but they simply will.

This + almost non existing 6 vs much scale on orders, thanks to all buffs to all destro pulls and new invented tanky monster with pounce.
That make huge portion of orders class imbalance cos the most secure place from all pulls and pounces is sniping your enemy from one million feets on top of the keep's wall

[aardvak001]

ROF does not stack, it did for a while on live and almost broke the entire game with how OP is was so if it did now you would know about it as Des wouldn't be able to take any keeps or forts.

Also saying Chosen is much worse than KOBS is such a bad comparison, Chosen is one of the best classes in the game, do you really see any Chosen moaning? KOBS is a good tank but hits like a wet noodle.

So even if you have some good points starting off with these two issues looses you a lot of credibility

Okay, i'll say it again. This post is not about class balance, otherwise i'd have put it in the class balance section of the forums. It is actually irrelevant whether rain of fire stacks. I don't actually remember saying chosen sucked, it just said that moral skill was garbage. I never said KoTBS is OP i just stated what the moral skill did. Please don't strawman me.

Part of this post was to try to initiate a dialogue with the devs in order to try and resolve the issue of destro winning a large number of city sieges. You are once again redirecting the discussion back to class balance, which is not what this post is about.

[agemennon675]

Ok, lets assume you're right and rain of fire does not stack. The point i wanted to raise was that the reason destro win cities is that we have more organised groups, NOT that our classes are OP and need nerfing. What I want to see the dev team doing therefore is encourage people, specifically on order to play in more organised groups and see how the winrate changes, because the evidence, albeit anecdotal, is that order loses cities because they simply solo queue and run into organised groups.

I will simply put SW vs SH example here to point out how having more viable mdps can affect the outcome of a fight in a melee/aoe meta

Okay, once again, you've missed the point of my post. I'm not making ANY claims about ANY class being better or worse or needing a buff or needing a nerf or even how viable classes are. I am simply saying that if you have pugs vs premades, the premades will win. Destro has more premades therefore the inevitably win a higher proportion of city instances. What the devs need to do is encourage order to make more premades somehow, but clearly balancing individual classes is not working

I think everyone agrees that destro have more warbands joining city siege because if they dont, they are not getting in simply because pop imbalance.

[Diragi]

For city W/L to be considered to balancing it needs to be normalized for premades. Also you really need to look at all stages. Ie I've come across many a Order comp that did away with tanks altogether. Obviously that is going to throw stage 3 but it does given them an huge DPS advantage in stage 2. And in stage 1 with enough eng and bw AoE spam the 3rd BO is really hard to take.